TSA got you down?

[iztok]

The only thing they truly have in common is that they're nut jobs, for whatever reason.

And religion it seems. Rarely you would see secular terrorists.

 

[fjpatrum]

This thread is not bad but some people should get a grip with reality.

As a LEO I would not be allowed to perform my job the way TSA does with the general public. There is a major difference in dealing with a Person and a Suspect. Just my way of categorizing people.

Definition: Person – is an individual doing their everyday task and not breaking any law, social norm, etc….. (95% plus of the normal society)
Suspect – is an individual that is under suspicion of an infraction of a Law, misconduct outside of Social Norms, Seen doing a criminal act……etc

You get my point.

Well I do not want any one touching any one or me in a way that I was raised as an inappropriate manor in the normal conduct of your life. Personal space thing and privacy issues. I would have major issues with this type of pat down of my daughter or significant other like I have seen just for a random course of business.

Lets put this issue in perspective. 1st Air flight is not a right. 2nd it is regulated by federal regulations and law. 3rd our security is a stake due to a lot of nuts out there.

Now what should be done in our current threat environment……. Body scan….. Well I have no issue with that if it will reduce the likely hood of another 9/11…….. Should you for what ever reason refuse the scan than you get a pat down. Well if you are going to refuse you have put yourself in a situation that you may not like…. Your decision BUT…… Here is a way to check you for hidden items without getting too intimate…. (JUST my 2 cents)
My way to handle this would be after they opt out of the body scan….
1st wand the individual – this get's a read for metal objects… We have been doing it for a long time……
2nd step that individual gets a normal pat down as has been done for a while to find any non metal objects hidden on your body……
3rd step is the individual gets an IONSCAN done on their hands and clothes….. Just like they do on bags….. If you have been in contact with explosives you will alarm….hell I alarm sometimes as I am in contact due to work.
Granted this will take a little more time but will cut down on the personal issues everyone is crying about.

The body scan will not hurt anyone even if you are a airline worker going through constantly……. All these special interest groups start crying and they modify the rules if you yell enough. Prime example are Pilots, then the Flight attendants, the Religious groups say it violates this or that etc. etc.. etc…….

I remember when I swore in on active duty in the military and they told me I lost some freedoms that the general public had and I had no problem with it as it came with the territory….. well if you want to fly you are going to have to give up a few things to keep nuts from being to fly any more planes into innocent buildings full of people.

Well back to my hole……

Your three step procedure is exactly what I have been through several times as a "randomly selected" security screening. I know for a fact I was not "random" because I asked one of the TSA folks about it. He said, "no" and his supervisor told him to shut up when I asked why I was singled out. I'm actually quite happy about the fact that I was not "random" even though at the time I am usually annoyed at the prospect.

This method of search, is not invasive, other than taking some time and the ridiculous level to which they do the ionscan (took stuff out of my wallet to swab). It's a reasonable level of search that will find, I'm guessing, 99% of all potential terrorists but it takes a long time.

The back-scatter is debatably safe for health and for those of us that have been exposed to too much radiation for other reasons opting out is the right choice. The 'enhanced pat down" won't prove anything a wand and a standard pat down with an ionscan of carry-ons can't find. It's just money in the pockets of already rich people who have the ear of congress and TSA officials.

That said, I'll be opting for the pat down every time I get asked to go through one of the scanners. I'm not embarrassed easily but I'm not interested in the health aspects of excessive radiation. In my opinion, any radiation not medically required is excessive. Period. Pat downs, whether they grope me or not are going to likely be less pleasant for the TSA than they are for me because I'm the guy that will be asking them to dinner afterwards.

I agree 100% with your point about the TSA people needing to be more professional and less "I have power" while the rest of us also need to cut them a little bit of slack occasionally. I'll be more inclined to do so when I go to a security line that moves smoothly with all the TSA folks working instead of going to a line that keeps getting stopped to prevent backups in the actual screening line while I can count 30 TSA employees standing around talking to each other instead of opening more screening lines.

 

[fjpatrum]

None of the terrorists you list, except for Umar Farouk tried to blow up a plane in the US, and Farouk boarded the plane in Amsterdam. So how does the TSA's Security today prevent the crimes they committed? Just wondering.

No more than it does now. That's the point. These "enhanced" security measures won't prevent anything and profiling, while a good tool in isolated cases won't work on "the general public" because you have to pick a specific type of person or group to profile against. As such, any person or group that doesn't match that profile is going to go unnoticed anyway.

 

[fjpatrum]

And religion it seems. Rarely you would see secular terrorists.

I'm no big fan of organized religion, but of the 4 people I listed as terrorists, only one of them was affiliated with any major religion. One other was a "cult" leader and arguably had some sort of religion, though not one most of us would consider a "real" religion.

The IRA were arguably a religious terrorist organization, but I think you'll find most people believe it was politics rather than religion that fueled their fires.

There are plenty of secular terrorists, though we won't hear much about them in the news these days. If it's not "extremist" it doesn't inflate ratings or sell advertisements enough to be newsworthy.

 

[iztok]

IOne other was a "cult" leader and arguably had some sort of religion, though not one most of us would consider a "real" religion.

Difference between a cult and religion is just in the number of followers. It is silly to fight over myths but apparently most of the threat out today is of religious origin.

 

[tarponchik]

No more than it does now. That's the point. These "enhanced" security measures won't prevent anything and profiling, while a good tool in isolated cases won't work on "the general public" because you have to pick a specific type of person or group to profile against. As such, any person or group that doesn't match that profile is going to go unnoticed anyway.

Exactly. This is why I suggest to stop right where we were, that is, metal detectors and bags X-raying that would at least screen most nutcases. If this does not work, then the only way to be safer is to make fewer enemies.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Exactly. This is why I suggest to stop right where we were, that is, metal detectors and bags X-raying that would at least screen most nutcases. If this does not work, then the only way to be safer is to make fewer enemies.

That ain't gonna happen anytime soon ... about the only growth industries left in this country are military contractors and political lobbyists ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[tarponchik]

That ain't gonna happen anytime soon ... about the only growth industries left in this country are military contractors and political lobbyists ...

You forgot porn videos. According to some sources, 12,000 of these are shot annually in California only.

 

[Belmont]

 

[Doc Harry]

...If this does not work, then the only way to be safer is to make fewer enemies...

Best quote of the day! We got rid of W, but it's too late. W poisoned the well before he jumped ship.