Trying to get on an NC charter this weekend 7/22

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fireflock:
Thanks for the report. Something does not sound quite right. Did they offer to take you to a closer site (since you were an hour out anyway, maybe at least the Liberty Ship)? Maybe a trip leader from Gypsy (not someone from Cape Fear Divers) decided to call the trip?

If there is one shop in NC that I would go out of my way not to piss off, it would be Gypsy Divers. It's rare to be talking with a group of NC divers and not find at least one diver who has some association with that shop.

Maybe Jim will chime in with some reasoning and/or another perspective.

I hope the Frying Pan tower dives were worth the trip.

Rich

It is entirely possible that someone from Gypsy Divers made the decision. All I know is that I felt, and so did others, that the dives were doable. We were not offered an alternative. The crew knew the forecast and if they had their doubts it should have been called before we left port. I think that I was the least experienced on the charter (Rescue Diver with almost 100 logged dives) and all the rest were either Divecon or Instructor level so I don't really understand the reasoning behind it. I have been in as bad, or worse, swells in Key Largo and managed to get back on the boat just fine. I think it should be left to the individual to decide if they want to dive or not, especially since we invested 2 hours of our day (1 hour out and 1 back) plus getting up at 6am. I was really, really looking forward to Hyde and Markham because I have yet to see Sand Tigers. From what I understand they are almost guaranteed to be on those 2 wrecks.

Keith
 
Ouch! Sounds like you were taken for a ride in more ways than one. We actually had a pretty decent day on the BottomTime boat, and it's just a 31 ft "six-pack", not a big fifty footer. Nobody even got sick.

Better luck in the future,
Frank
 
kabluton:
It is entirely possible that someone from Gypsy Divers made the decision.
Keith

Even if this was the case, the most I would expect to pay for is some fuel. I'm not sure what the CapeFearDivers refund policy is (I didn't find one on their website), but the policy you described is different (worse) than any other boat that I've been on in NC.
 
fireflock:
Even if this was the case, the most I would expect to pay for is some fuel. I'm not sure what the CapeFearDivers refund policy is (I didn't find one on their website), but the policy you described is different (worse) than any other boat that I've been on in NC.[/QUOTE

what is the policy of the other nc charters, if they stop or cancel the dive?
 
I am sure Capt. Jim will chime in soon, as I would be interested as well. However I must say I commend him if he did call the dive with 4-5' swells, that does not make for a fun dive and safety is a big issue. I would rather a captain call the dive then take any chances. The operator in use in Myrtle Beach would do the same which is why I respect him so much. I sure don't like being put in the situation where I need to decide to blow off my money or the dive due to water conditioins. (please don't flame me, that is my opinion).

I would be more curious about the refund policy though if the boat calls the dive. I will wait to see what he has to say before I jump to any conclusions there are 2 sides to every story. FYI I don't know Capt. Jim, never been on his boat, just considering it as an alternative to the 3 other big palyers 2 of whom I have dove with and won't dive with again.

LindaBlueD
 
mako1:
what is the policy of the other nc charters, if they stop or cancel the dive?

Here is the policy from Discovery (http://discoverydiving.com/cancel.htm). Others charters that I know of are similar.

----------------------------------------------------
Deposits will be refunded on any trip WE cancel due to weather or other circumstances. Speaking of weather, WE cannot guarantee the clarity of the water or the calmness of the ocean; therefore, we cannot guarantee our ability to get to any particular wreck. Our boat captains will always attempt to get you to where you want to go, but the safety of our passengers and the vessel is always the foremost consideration. If it is not possible to get you to the primary site, it is usually possible to get you to an alternate dive site. In that case you will only be charged for the trip that was actually run, cancellation is not an option.
-----------------------------------------------------


I have been on a Discovery boat when the Capt canceled before we left the dock. I recieved a full refund. We had an experienced group of NC divers and everyone knew the day was a blowout before we reached the dock. The other big boat had a group from out of town and they were tougher to convince. They went out the inlet to see what things were like and returned ~45min later. I think everyone on that boat got a full refund as well.

I have also been on a boat when the Capt changed the site at the dock due to mechanical problems (one engine burning too much fuel). He had a out of town group and changed from an offshore site to an inshore site as a compromise to get folks diving while not burning too much fuel/$. We talked about it and I decided not to go and paid only for my Nitrix fills (and I got a few bucks off).

FWIW - as a Capt. this can be a hard call to make. You really can't tell what the weather is like until you (or someone else - you'll see them talking to fishing boats on the radio to find out) get out there. You don't want to dissapoint an eager group of divers, some of whom may have traveled some distance to dive with you. So, sometimes when it's obvious to you (the Capt) that things are bad, you might have to gently convince the passengers. The boat will be safe in any diveable conditions; that's not the problem. The problem is getting divers on and off the boat. My view is that a few bruised shins are part of the deal.

It's a tough call, but I'm surprised they did not even talk to the passengers about it. If I was on the trip, I would like to get in the water somewhere - even if they could not make the original site.

I would be pretty t'd off if they made it nowhere but asked me to pay full price anyway.

Rich
 
mako1:
what is the policy of the other nc charters, if they stop or cancel the dive?

Aquatics Safaris cancellation Policy

"We cannot guarantee sea conditions or visibility. We will make every effort to get you to the chosen site, however the captain has the right to change the destination or the number of dives for the safety of the passengers and vessel. If an alternative dive site is chosen, divers will be prorated to the destination. Refunds are not provided to divers who fail to dive due to seasickness or other causes. Deposit will be refunded on any charter we cancel due to poor weather conditions or other circumstances."

The customers pay for the dives. The ride out is free its the ride back in that costs ya :wink: . We have on a few occasions made it out in the ocean to find it was a little rough and saw it in the divers best interest to get back to shore. When this happens there is NO charge. If the location changes the customer pays for the dive they did, not were supposed to do. We took divers to the Stone and Dredge wreck 14 miles out on Sunday and it was a little bumpy. I agree with Mel, wait to hear Jim's side, it can be a difficult decision to make.
 
fireflock:
Thanks for the report. Something does not sound quite right. Did they offer to take you to a closer site (since you were an hour out anyway, maybe at least the Liberty Ship)? Maybe a trip leader from Gypsy (not someone from Cape Fear Divers) decided to call the trip?

If there is one shop in NC that I would go out of my way not to piss off, it would be Gypsy Divers. It's rare to be talking with a group of NC divers and not find at least one diver who has some association with that shop.

Maybe Jim will chime in with some reasoning and/or another perspective.

I hope the Frying Pan tower dives were worth the trip.

Rich

Hi folks--There are several inaccuracies in Keith's post.

Most importantly, WE did NOT call the dive. Our boat had absolutely no problem handling the seas. The dive was called by the group leader, who is the very experienced and widely respected owner of one of NC's best dive shops. It was a good call, but it was not ours. The boat was theirs for the weekend, so it was properly their call.

Second, in that location, there was a set of swells rolling in from the tropical storm that were in excess of 6 feet. Keith is right that the underlying seas were only 3 to 5; it was those swells that caused the concern--again not for the boat, but for the divers.

Third, our policy is like everyone else's: if WE call the dive for any reason, sea conditions or otherwise, we eat the expenses of the trip and give a full refund.

Fourth, Discovery is a great operator. I have been out with them many times. That includes trips where the dives were called by the group and i received no refund. As quoted by another in this string, their policy is: "Deposits will be refunded on any trip WE cancel due to weather or other circumstances." Note the capitalized "WE". It is my beleif that our policy is the same as Discovery's and all the other operators i know of.

Fifth, we did provide substantial perks to the divers on that boat. I gave every one a card crediting them with two dives towards the five needed to get a free day of diving with us. In addition, i authorized the group leader to send everyone an email offering them an additional 20% off their next dive. Not as good a a full refund, but i'm trying here.

Sixth, and the second most significant point, Keith did not say one word to me about being dissatisfied with the call, about wanting a refund, or anything else that was critical of the call. It seems to me that common decency requires all of us to at least speak to a person who has offended us before we take to the airwaves trashing them and trying to hurt them. I was on the boat. I personally went to Keith and expressed my condolences that we didn't get to dive. So its not like he'd have had to be super-assertive to get to me to complain. I have bent over backwards to give people refunds, discounts or whatever it took to make things right if they will only say something to me. Also, i went to extra trouble with Keith to be helpful the day before the dive day: he'd forgotten his wet suit, so i offered that we had rental wetsuits. He didn't want the kind we had (fulls instead of shorties). I went through our inventory to make sure we didn't have a shorty for him. Then i called him back with the name and address of a surf shop that would be on his way and that had wetsuits on sale. He got his replacement wetsuit there at a bargain. Not a big deal, just an indication that i am trying to be helpful, and that Keith knew i was approachable. Oh, and Keith is getting a refund, of course, for the tanks he didn't use. In the stress of dealing with a cancelled dive, it just didn't occur to me (nearly everyone brought their own tanks) to handle it on the spot, and again my oversight on that was not brought to my attention.

Finally, this call made me sad. I want to take people diving. I didn't go into this business because its a great way to make money (it isn't!!). I went into it because love diving, and i want to take people diving on our great coast, in a great boat, and give them a great experience. There's nothing worse than having a group of divers wanting to dive and not getting them wet. I was personally looking forward to the dive, also.

This is the only time we've cancelled a dive once underway. I hope it never happens again, though i know it inevitably will. It's the worst situation for a dive boat, other than injury to a diver. We have cancelled on the dock once, where it was that clear. we gave full refunds to those divers. But this day was not that easy a call. Some charter boats were staying in, some went out, some came back, some went through. If not for the that big swell, there's no question we would've done the dives. We have been out diving several times this season when the other boats (Aquatic Safaris, for example) stayed home, and it's been great. That's the advantage the big boat gives us. Unfortunately, on this particular day, the seas were such that the group leader made the decision to call the trip.

I do regret that we were not more proactive in getting everyone to verbally sign off on the turnaround decision. We'll do that next time. If this had been a boatload of random divers we would have done that this time; because it was a group, my thought process was that once the group leader calls it, that's it.
 
Jim,

Thank you for your clarification. I have the utmost respect for the owner of said dive shop and if he felt conditions were questionable, I would agree with whatever he decided.

I also agree it is a hard call, but I will say again and again no one ever gets hurt on a dive that does not take place, sometimes it is better to err on the side of safety even if it is not the popular decision.

I would much rather have the dive called then being tossed into 5-6’seas with minimal visibility. Again, that is just me, but I am a conservative diver.

I look forward to giving you a try as soon as I can find someone to split the hotel expenses with me and does not mind having a buddy who dives air.

LindaBlueD
 
Cape Fear Divers:
Sixth, and the second most significant point, Keith did not say one word to me about being dissatisfied with the call, about wanting a refund, or anything else that was critical of the call. It seems to me that common decency requires all of us to at least speak to a person who has offended us before we take to the airwaves trashing them and trying to hurt them. I was on the boat. I personally went to Keith and expressed my condolences that we didn't get to dive. So its not like he'd have had to be super-assertive to get to me to complain. I have bent over backwards to give people refunds, discounts or whatever it took to make things right if they will only say something to me. Also, i went to extra trouble with Keith to be helpful the day before the dive day: he'd forgotten his wet suit, so i offered that we had rental wetsuits. He didn't want the kind we had (fulls instead of shorties). I went through our inventory to make sure we didn't have a shorty for him. Then i called him back with the name and address of a surf shop that would be on his way and that had wetsuits on sale. He got his replacement wetsuit there at a bargain. Not a big deal, just an indication that i am trying to be helpful, and that Keith knew i was approachable. Oh, and Keith is getting a refund, of course, for the tanks he didn't use. In the stress of dealing with a cancelled dive, it just didn't occur to me (nearly everyone brought their own tanks) to handle it on the spot, and again my oversight on that was not brought to my attention.

Jim,

I will admit that you were very helpful and I never said you or your crew were not. However I did specifically ask you about your refund policy right after the call was made on the upper deck of your boat. You told me point blank that you would NOT give a refund because of crew and fuel costs and that maybe you could help me out on my next dive. When I asked about your refund policy that should have been a tipoff that I was not happy with the call. What more did I need to do? Maybe I could have been more vocal but I don't like to complain and make a scene on board a boat.

Helping me out on my next dive doesn't do me a lot of good if I don't use your operation again.

I also said in an earlier post that I was not sure who made the call. You told me your captain was uneasy with the conditions. I respect Dave and Laura and know they are very experienced divers but they don't speak for me. If they call the dive and want to forfeit what they paid, that is their decision. I would have like to have been given the option of getting a full refund for Sunday's dive.

I know you have a business to protect and there are two sides to every story but I still don't agree with taking money for a service that was clearly NOT provided.

Keith
 

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