Trust my LDS?

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Like others have said, this is likely more of a customer relation issue than a real problem with the gear. Buying used rental scuba gear is a lot like buying a used rental car. Assuming your dealing with a reputable dealer, you will be buying gear that has been well used, and probably abused, but also gear that has been professionaly maintained. Chances are it comes with some cosmetic scratches, but also with some normal wear, the same you would expect with a used car. To continue the automotive comparison, your complaint is roughly equal to buying a used car with 150,000 miles, then getting home and finding the muffler is very rusty, then taking it back and the dealer claiming it is normal wear, but to sastify the customer he will replace it since the dealer cost for the part is only a few dollars and a few minutes worth of work.

Ike
 
If you take one of the HP port plugs out and look inside, you'll see that there's only a tiny hole leading from the HP chamber in the 1st stage out to the port. There's no need for any sort of flow rate to the SPG, in fact you want to have as small a volume of HP air in the hose and gauge as possible to keep the total pressure down. There's a much larger opening from the HP chamber into the IP chamber, so that air can freely flow to the 2nd stage. Surfacing after a HP hose failure is no big deal, the reg will still work fine. You'll just have a spectacular stream of small bubbles to look at on the way up.

In normal recreational diving, if a single equipment malfunction event is life threatening, then you need to re-think your approach to diving. This is why we use the buddy system, use back up gear depending on the environment, and most importantly only dive in situations we can get out of safely given our training and equipment. Nobody wants to dive with equipment they don;t trust, I'm totally with you on that one, but don't confuse inconvenient or even scary with life threatening.


Thanks, that's the sort of info I was looking for.

Not knowing what the probable outcome of a burst HP hose was the worrying part. Fear of the unknown. Thanks for the clear explanation.

So its fair to say that I probably over-reacted, due to lack of experience/knowledge. Guess that's why I am here, at Scubaboard, learning everything I can.

Many Thanks!
 
20 mins to empty the tank? Wow, I envisioned maybe a minute or two. Would the reg still function, despite a system pressure drop like that? I.E. is a controlled ascent, with air, still possible?

Obviously, the time to empty the tank depends on the amount of air in the tank. If it blows at the end of your dive with under 500psi it will take just a few minutes but you should have been on your ascent anyway. If you calculate your gas requirements correctly you should be able to call the dive and make a safe and slow ascent, perhaps even with a safety stop. On the other hand, your LP hose is designed to deliver large volumes of air and a blown LP hose will empty a full tank in a little over a minute. That's your real threat as you may find yourself needing your buddy's air or needing to do a CESA if it occurs at depth. Here is an entertaining video to illustrate both scenarios.
 
He really should have replaced this for you with no questions asked, and IMO, he should never have sold it to you in this condition. Cracked hoses are kind of like squeeling brake pads. It's a sign that you need to replace things quickly. I wouldn't dive with a cracked hose. I carry spares. That's what they are for.

Tom
 
He really should have replaced this for you with no questions asked, and IMO, he should never have sold it to you in this condition. Cracked hoses are kind of like squeeling brake pads. It's a sign that you need to replace things quickly. I wouldn't dive with a cracked hose. I carry spares. That's what they are for.

Tom

I agree with you, it should not have been sold in that condition. The new hose arrived at his shop Friday, so I went down and had him install it. But when I went diving on Saturday, I found that he had installed a hose that was considerably shorter than the original. Result: I could barely get the gauges/compass in a position where I could read them. A cheapskate move, to be sure. I had to get my buddy to keep checking my air pressure. I will not be having any repair work done there again. Guess I'll just have bite my tongue and shop elsewhere at this point; don't want to have trouble with getting warranties honored with the stuff that I bought new from him.:shakehead:

I'll be carrying new spare hoses from on. Then I am in control.
 
Obviously, the time to empty the tank depends on the amount of air in the tank. If it blows at the end of your dive with under 500psi it will take just a few minutes but you should have been on your ascent anyway. If you calculate your gas requirements correctly you should be able to call the dive and make a safe and slow ascent, perhaps even with a safety stop. On the other hand, your LP hose is designed to deliver large volumes of air and a blown LP hose will empty a full tank in a little over a minute. That's your real threat as you may find yourself needing your buddy's air or needing to do a CESA if it occurs at depth. Here is an entertaining video to illustrate both scenarios.

Thanks for the video clip, it really illustrates which hose mission critical. I think I'll just go ahead and change the LP hoses, too. They are not split, but do show some aging of the rubber, mostly on the BC air supply hose near the first stage connectors. The LP hoses have those strain relief rubbers on them. As I mention in the beginning of this thread, the Reg is an ex-rental unit, mostly used in a pool. Its a 2005 Sherwood Brut. Chlorine can't be very good for the rubber components; would it be worth rebuilding the Reg, just for peace of mind?
 
I agree with you, it should not have been sold in that condition. The new hose arrived at his shop Friday, so I went down and had him install it. But when I went diving on Saturday, I found that he had installed a hose that was considerably shorter than the original. Result: I could barely get the gauges/compass in a position where I could read them. A cheapskate move, to be sure. I had to get my buddy to keep checking my air pressure. I will not be having any repair work done there again. Guess I'll just have bite my tongue and shop elsewhere at this point; don't want to have trouble with getting warranties honored with the stuff that I bought new from him.
shakehead.gif


I'll be carrying new spare hoses from on. Then I am in control.


My recommendation here (with everything you have told us): Sever the tie and cut your loss. Have the equipment checked by another shop and never go back to this guy (see my note closer to the end on this). Quite frankly, it was a used set-up so there will be no formal warranty (or it would be very rare in my opinion). Look into your other options and never look back. Do not verbalize your exit with the owner...just gracefully disappear into the night. That way if you ever need something from them (in the area and your spare fin strap breaks or something), there will be fewer (if any) hard feelings.
 
I agree with you, it should not have been sold in that condition. The new hose arrived at his shop Friday, so I went down and had him install it. But when I went diving on Saturday, I found that he had installed a hose that was considerably shorter than the original. Result: I could barely get the gauges/compass in a position where I could read them. A cheapskate move, to be sure. I had to get my buddy to keep checking my air pressure. I will not be having any repair work done there again. Guess I'll just have bite my tongue and shop elsewhere at this point; don't want to have trouble with getting warranties honored with the stuff that I bought new from him.:shakehead:

I'll be carrying new spare hoses from on. Then I am in control.

HP hoses are pretty similar in price no matter how long (High Pressure Hoses) I prefer a 24" hose. It is a lot more streamlined, and a lot less dangly. They are too short if you plan on using a console mounted compass, however. What length hose did he give you?

Tom
 
Thanks for the video clip, it really illustrates which hose mission critical. I think I'll just go ahead and change the LP hoses, too. They are not split, but do show some aging of the rubber, mostly on the BC air supply hose near the first stage connectors. The LP hoses have those strain relief rubbers on them. As I mention in the beginning of this thread, the Reg is an ex-rental unit, mostly used in a pool. Its a 2005 Sherwood Brut. Chlorine can't be very good for the rubber components; would it be worth rebuilding the Reg, just for peace of mind?

Peace of mind is worth something, but you might get that just by reading more about the high reliability of regulators and hoses, etc.

If I had the very gear you just bought, I would have no worries about using it to recreational depths.

Your Sherwood Brut regulator will probably be fine even without being serviced immediately. My Sherwoods go two or three years and up to a couple hundred dives before I get around to servicing them. They could probably go longer before they would have any problems, and those problems would be minor.

One of the reasons is that the Sherwood "Dry Air Bleed" system keeps water out of the regulator. Even if your Brut hasn't been serviced in a couple of years, it will probably give plenty of warning of its need for servicing. Most likely that warning will be a mild trickle of free-flow because the main piston o-ring is sticking.

My recommendation here (with everything you have told us): Sever the tie and cut your loss. Have the equipment checked by another shop and never go back to this guy (see my note closer to the end on this). Quite frankly, it was a used set-up so there will be no formal warranty (or it would be very rare in my opinion). Look into your other options and never look back. Do not verbalize your exit with the owner...just gracefully disappear into the night. That way if you ever need something from them (in the area and your spare fin strap breaks or something), there will be fewer (if any) hard feelings.

This shop owner may be a little sloppy, but not necessarily untrustworthy, as far as I can see, but I agree a second opinion may be reassuring.

If the OP really wants to get an honest appraisal of the gear he just bought, he would be wise not to tell the second shop of his specific concerns, at least not until after they've expressed their opinion of the gear. I'd avoid raising a question about the other shop, that's for sure. Doing so could be counter-productive for any number of reasons. ;)

Even better, having the gear evaluated by an experienced diver who services his own gear could be even more revealing. It's extremely easy to do, especially with Sherwoods.

It's my experience that most used scuba gear is very reliable, even after many years of heavy use, unless it was severely abused or neglected.

Even then, problems will be readily apparent, even to a new diver, and are likely to only cause inconvenience, not danger. :)

Dave C
 
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HP hoses are pretty similar in price no matter how long (High Pressure Hoses) I prefer a 24" hose. It is a lot more streamlined, and a lot less dangly. They are too short if you plan on using a console mounted compass, however. What length hose did he give you?

Tom

He put on a 24" in place of the 30" I got with it. I do use a console mounted compass, which I then couldn't get flat enough and far forward enough to read, with a 24" hose. I'm 6'4" so short hoses just don't cut it.

I went to different LDS to get a longer hose installed and get my tanks filled today. Wow, such a different caliber of service! Very different attitude, checked my reg over, said it looked OK. Inspected the other hoses, pronounced them fit. I took the opportunity to have a longer(5ft) LP hose installed for the second reg, as I believe its gotta be easier to share.


He did mention that he didn't like the fact that one of my 72cuFt steel tanks(hydro&viz at other LDS only 2 weeks ago)has no provision for a burst disk, so he wouldn't fill it again(After this fill) until I get it sorted. Which seems fair enough; should the other shop have spotted this? Is it a legal requirement? Or just good practice? Either way, its another nail in the coffin for the other LDS.
 

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