Trouble with the back kick manoeuvre Help!

[Whale Whisperer]

Hello all, I've done a search for "Back Kick" but couldn't find anything solid on this subject. I wasn't sure where to post my question, so i thought this may be the best place?

I'm having trouble with the back kick. I just can't figure it out yet, is there anyone out there that can point me in the right direction? Someone told me that it's basically the frog kick in reverse, but when every time I attempt to mimic (I guess) a reverse frog kick my feet go up, my head goes down, and I end up slowly acending or remain stationary which is very frustrating! I arch my head and back as much as possible which still doesn't seem to help me. My experience is with Scubapro Jets, and just got a set of Slip Streams the other day. I also dive double AL80's as my standard set up.

I'm not Fundified yet but I hope to sign up for a possible class on January and I'd like to be prepared. The instructor and I have too much going on the next 6 weeks, and I have to find someone that's interested in taking class with me. Wish me luck on that lol. I usually get the "DIR? Fundamentals? What's that?" so when I describe DIR to the best of my knowledge everyone declines! Ha ha ha

Thanks for the help ahead of time!

 

[Matt S.]

I found the videos here to be useful... Though I still suck.

Hoofers SCUBA - SCUBA Links

 

[PerroneFord]

I'll be at Ginnie Springs Saturday. Stop by and we'll make it happen.

From what I've seen, people who tend to ascend when they are doing a back kick, are generally looking down when they perform it, or they are not in proper trim to begin with. So to combat this, try two things.

1. Put your hands in front of your mask, and look forward. If you find that you are looking at something different by the time you do the third back kick, you are not in trim

2. On the portion of the kick where you straighten your legs, leave them fully stretched out for a 2 count before you complete the kick. Just do a count of one thousand one, one thousand two, then complete the kick. This should give your body time to flatten out instead of being head down.

Best of luck.

 

[LiteHedded]

i tend to go upwards a bit as well when I back kick...

 

[FLDVR]

2. On the portion of the kick where you straighten your legs, leave them fully stretched out for a 2 count before you complete the kick. Just do a count of one thousand one, one thousand two, then complete the kick. This should give your body time to flatten out instead of being head down.

I'll have to second the pause at the legs straight position, it makes you bring the fins together and sets the stage for the important part of the backfin. I visualize my fins spreading outwards and pulling my body towards my fins instead of thinking about dragging my body through the water using my fins.

 

[Doc Intrepid]

Perrone's experience agreed with my own.

To do a back kick consistently I found several prerequisites were necessary:
1. Be in perfect trim when you begin. (You may find it helpful to practice over a submerged platform. This makes it easy to get your trim squared away during the exercise.)

2. It is important (at least when learning) to maintain a good arch in your back. Keep your head up and looking straight forward. You my notice the back of your head resting against your isolater valve. As Perrone mentioned, keep your hands and arms out in front of you. This generally clears up the "going up and back" tendency that occurs when you drop your head and your back is not arched.

3. "Slow is smooth, and smooth is fast." Don't try to power through the kicks when learning. Power and speed will develop over time. Concentrate on getting the moves - which are indeed a sort of 'reverse frog kick' - put together in your mind.

[you essentially bring your fins 'together' and move them slowly straight back, then out to the sides in a 'frog-like' posture. Then bring your fins up with a motion that resembles doing a deep knee bend, ending with bringing the soles of your feet together again to begin moving them backwards. Some people have found that the moves are actually easier to practice in the pool without fins. Then add fins after you have the motions figured out...]

It really helps to have a friend videotape your efforts, so you can see what you're doing right (and wrong) afterwards. Its also probably easier to pick up if you're working with a mentor who can show you whats going on when you're learning.

Best,

Doc

 

[cool_hardware52]

I might add the following;

Practice the motions without fins. Many people find the "load" portion of the kick, when you extend your legs backwards, pushes them forwards. This is because of improper fin position.

Try it without fins, in a suitable location of course. Without fins you may find you can successfully move back at least some.

To achieve the correct fin position I imagine I'm trying to drag my fin tips on the bottom. I don't of course, but this forces me to focus on getting my fins horizontal, not tipped up.

If your fins are tipped up on the load you will push yourself forward.

All the other advice about trim, and arching is vital.

Tobin

 

[Whale Whisperer]

Matt, that guy in the video makes it look soooo easy LOL Thanks for the link.

I'll be at Ginnie Springs Saturday. Stop by and we'll make it happen.

Would love to, but I'm 5 hrs away and I've already got plans, but maybe some other time!

I always thought trim was always very important, but I have no one to tell me how my trim is or should be for that matter. I ask some that I've dived with (I'm new to Florida) and most say that I'm horizontal when ever they've seen me. I really wish I had a coach here I'm just a grasshopper with no Master Hahaha.

I do have a dent in the back of my head from the isolater valve after a dive and I keep my hands joined in front of me so I can keep my compass and bottom timer in plain view at all times. My problem is I'm legs heavy, so I have to arch my back and press my head into the isloater valve to stay in trim and look forward. I'd like to lower the both tanks on the bands, but my trim will be shot. So that's why I just purchased some new Slip Stream fins. I can only hope that the lighter fins can put my trim in better balance.

Perrone, I'll have to work on my trim and try that two second rule. Thanks!

Litehedded, I know what you mean, it's very very frustrating! Ha ha ha

FLDVR, Thanks for the visual, now you got me closing my eyes and thinking about it.

Doc, thanks for the tips! I will go slower the next time I practice. But no matter how HARD I try to arch my back and look forward I still have problems. I do have a sore back after practicing I thought that having heavy legs would prevent me from going feet up when doing this manuver.

I also forgot to mention that sometimes I end up staying in the same spot after a few kick attemps HA HA HA. I like the idea of practicing without fins but it's going to feel very weird, so I'll try it out in the pool later.

 

[Whale Whisperer]

I might add the following;

Practice the motions without fins. Many people find the "load" portion of the kick, when you extend your legs backwards, pushes them forwards. This is because of improper fin position.

YES! When I extend I do go forward! It's like your trying to pedal forward but going backwards errr you know what I mean. This is very very frustrating!

To achieve the correct fin position I imagine I'm trying to drag my fin tips on the bottom. I don't of course, but this forces me to focus on getting my fins horizontal, not tipped up.

If your fins are tipped up on the load you will push yourself forward.

All the other advice about trim, and arching is vital.

Tobin

Thanks Tobin!

 

[Ben_ca]

It's unfortunate that people have the urge to practice the skills that are to be taught in class before the actual class...

How long until we have a Intro to Fundies class?