Trim Problem

[sambolino44]

...Soakedlontra is using positive fins, I'm pretty sure. ...

Just to set the record straight, her Pro model Force Fins sink, not float. Maybe not as dense as Jets, but "negatively buoyant" nonetheless.

 

[sambolino44]

There are a bunch of things going on at the same time, and they all affect each other. Tank position, weight location, amount and location of insulation, amount of air in the suit, etc. Change one thing (like, move the tank down so it doesn't bump your head) and you have to compensate somewhere else.

It helps to be methodical (change only one thing at a time, and note the difference it makes before changing something else), and it helps to keep a log and refer back to it.

We've discussed changing from a weight belt to a weight harness. There's also the possibility of adding weight pockets to your harness, but I don't know if there's room.

 

[TSandM]

Yes, changing one thing at a time is key! Too many variables, and you never understand what the effect of a change is.

Thanks for the info, Sam -- I thought Force Fins were positive, but I guess I was wrong.

 

[sambolino44]

Yes, changing one thing at a time is key! Too many variables, and you never understand what the effect of a change is.

Thanks for the info, Sam -- I thought Force Fins were positive, but I guess I was wrong.

Lynne, I know you and Betty are close to the same size, so maybe you can offer some insight here. One thing I've noticed is that there's hardly any room to put the the weight belt on her hips but not buried underneath her harness belt. If she puts the weight belt any lower it'll slide off, and be to low for proper trim anyway. But she can't really get the harness any higher than it is now. There just isn't enough vertical space between her shoulders and her hips to get all that gear, especially with those big 5 lb weights on her belt.

How do you handle that?

 

[mikemill]

Yes, changing one thing at a time is key! Too many variables, and you never understand what the effect of a change is.

Thanks for the info, Sam -- I thought Force Fins were positive, but I guess I was wrong.

They are negative but no where near as negative as normal paddles.

 

[DaleC]

This has been on my mind recently.

I read a study that suggested a factor in DCS on deco dives may be related to this. During the working portion of a dive, you are active and relatively warm. Your blood is circulating freely, and you are very efficient in the process of on-gassing. During decompression stops the protocol is to be relatively motionless, staring at your teammates as time passes slowly. You are not active, and you are getting cold. Your circulation is compromised, and you become inefficient at off-gassing.

Thus, the last time I did deco stops, I started swimming around, mostly just to keep things circulating. Fortunately, I had told the team ahead of time what I was doing so they weren't wondering, and a couple did the same.

It's funny that you brought that up as I have been wondering the same thing too. Modrate exertion during the dive then relatively no exertion during the SS/deco phase. Does the reduced blood flow/respiration rate reduce off gassing. Just questions, no answers. I'm off to read the article BT linked to.

 

[Bubbletrubble]

Lynne, I know you and Betty are close to the same size, so maybe you can offer some insight here. One thing I've noticed is that there's hardly any room to put the the weight belt on her hips but not buried underneath her harness belt. If she puts the weight belt any lower it'll slide off, and be to low for proper trim anyway. But she can't really get the harness any higher than it is now. There just isn't enough vertical space between her shoulders and her hips to get all that gear, especially with those big 5 lb weights on her belt.

How do you handle that?

Perhaps she could try shifting some weight from the weight belt to small weight pockets mounted on the bottom tank camband. If she does this, she should be mindful of balancing the weight on her back properly, since making a change like this can increase the tendency to turtle.

It sounds to me like a DUI Weight & Trim harness might help. As I mentioned previously, it gives more options with regard to positioning the weight and it is much more comfortable to wear than a weight belt. It works like a charm with a BP/W. The quick-ditch handles protrude from below the waist belt.

 

[TSandM]

I usually end up with the harness BELOW the weight belt. I also went to shaped hard weights, which are far less bulky than the pocketed weight belt. (IIRC, Betty uses the same XS Scuba weight belt that I used to use, with the soft weights in it -- when you have to use a lot of weight, those get REALLY bulky. But the main reason I switched is that I lost a five pound weight out of one of the pockets on a dive. I did not want to have that happen again!)

 

[Teamcasa]

B.S. ankle weights are for the people that never learned to dive a drysuit the correct way.

Nonsense.

.. but I use Jet fins with spring straps, which are probably equivalent to putting somewhere between 1 and 2 pounds on each foot.

Exactly.

What is the difference between ankle weights and "heavier" fins?

Nothing.

Yes, changing one thing at a time is key!

Right again.

I use a Whites Catalyst 360 - it looks like yours? As for the drysuit and trim, think of your suit like a parachute. If you work a bubble of air into your shoulders and a little into your lower legs the suit will hold you perfectly flat. As you move in and out of trim, (like me when I shoot video) the bubble moves fast and forces you out of trim that much quicker. So, as you plan to move out of a horizontal position, think about where the air in your suit is going to be and learn to preempt it by adjusting the bubble before it adjusts you.

 

[Soakedlontra]

A shell suit with detached boots is not suitable for what reason?

If you're thinking about getting cold, I tried a compressed neoprene suit and it didn't make much difference, but it was a lot harder to get in and out of, and dried very slowly.

If it's the trim issue, that is solvable either way, and what you are using on your feet makes very little difference.

Well I guess it is not so much the shell suit but rock boots that don't compress attached to the suit rather than having them separate. Sam has never cold feet and he has his rock boots attached to his neoprene High Tide suit. Anyway it is just a thought. I haven't exhausted all the possibilities yet...I need to look for different socks. And maybe I do need to add more air in my suit. Sam keeps telling me that I look like a 'Californian Raisin'! All wrinkles and no bubble...In fact when you talk about moving the 'bubble' around I do theoretically understand what you mean but practically I don't because I don't feel a bubble inside my suit, the only thing I feel is my feet getting less tight inside the high tops.