Tried to Kill Myself but Failed!

[wetb4igetinthewater]

I understand, its a basic scuba forum, but the OP grabbed the wrong second stage, which (according to the OP) was less than ideal. If, in the future, the OP would like to avoid making the same mistake, he should see how it was addressed in the tech community years ago. Dont get hung up on the tech example. It's still grabbing the wrong second stage.

Sure, but in recreational diving, all gasses carried are to be breathable at every depth. The issue here is draining the much smaller pony and wondering WTF? The issue here is panic.

Technical diving, non-breathable gasses at different depths has the issue of ox toxing or going to sleep.

I have taken value from this thread in how I will improve my teaching. In open water courses, I will discuss this to plant a seed and request that my students follow up with me if they get a pony to ensure they don't make the same mistake the OP and myself (and others) have made.

 

[Sevenrider860]

Hi @NW Dive Dawg

So, turns out you were lucky to have your Air2 and tried it, could have ended differently.

I do almost all my diving in Florida solo. My primary is on a 40" hose under my arm, secondary is on a short hose, bungeed around my neck. I sling my 19 cu ft pony. My configuration is quite clear and makes it difficult to make an error. However, I have made many other mistakes over the years and learned from each one.

Glad you were able to tell this story.

Additional evidence that Air2s save lives!

 

[txdamselfish]

Happy birthday and thank you for sharing.

 

[VikingDives]

So I’ve been on the fence on whether or not to post this……because it’s really hard to openly and publicly admit when you do something totally stupid. But then I thought more about it last night and figure that if it might provide some productive and positive food for thought and discussion…..or maybe help someone else from making the same mistake….that I really do need to talk about it.

Day before yesterday we are out on our boat and I’m doing a nice easy dive to celebrate my 68th B-day and get us a nice Lingcod for my B-day dinner. (it's a tradition thing) I’m a solo diver (certified SDI/TDS) and have done this dive many times with no issues. Nice easy exchange with little current, descent vis of about 10 ft.. I dive an HP102 Steel with a back-mount 19cf pony and a Zeagle Ranger BC.

My wife snapped the pic below right before I donned my hood, mask, gloves, fins, speargun & stringer prior to back-roll entry over the side. In looking at the pic I have realized my mistake and what happened. The “yellow” circle is my primary Apeks 2nd stage. My pony second is kinda hidden just below and behind my right hand. The “green” circle is the clip that I normally route my pony hose through so that the pony 2nd is basically is right in front of me, always there and easily accessible. Once I finished kitting up with all my crap for the dive, I was in a rush to splash and inadvertently must have grabbed my pony 2nd rather than my primary, inserted the pony 2nd into my cake-hole, took a couple of hooves, then back-rolled into the Sound. All seemed good so I gave my wife the OK, swam forward, descended the anchor line to about 60ft and began my hunt.

About 10 minutes into the dive and after bagging and stringing a nice dinner Ling, I noticed my reg getting a bit stiff to breath….then the next breath where there was NO gas. I immediately went for my pony 2nd, but it wasn’t there in it’s normal spot because it was already in my mouth and not in it’s normal clip. My brain is spinning and totally telling me that my main gas supply is depleted for some reason and I NEED my pony 2nd. I have a moment of what I would call “high anxiety” and possibly first stage panic. My brain is saying WTF??? ESA??? so I go to my BC / Air 2 thinking that I can “re-breath” on the way to the surface if needed. The Air 2 immediately delivers blessed gas from my still full primary tank and I am some how able to calm down, settle to the bottom, re-group and access the situation.

I check my pony SPG and it’s zeroed out so I start to realize my mistake. I sweep and recover my primary 2nd, switch to that from my Air 2….and all is good. I check my primary computer and realize that I still have 3350psi of a 3500psi fill. The picture of what happened starts to clarify in my mind and I bet I spent a good full minute or two on my knees just breathing and slowing down my heart rate as I stare at my primary AI computer and see that I have LOTS of primary gas available and all is well.

Being solo and with my redundant gas now gone, I call my dive and nav back to the anchor line and my marker strobe…….make a nice slow ascent with SS and surface with plenty of primary gas remaining. Had a great Lingcod dinner and glad that I get to be a year older…

Anyway….. it’s not easy to post this because I’m totally embarrassed that I made such a stupid flipp’n mistake…. But hoping that we might be able to have some productive conversation about it.

My “personal” lessons learned.

• Confirm, crosscheck, double check and triple check all configurations and functions before splashing.
• Confirm, crosscheck, double check and triple check all configurations after splashing.
• Don’t be lazy about checking gauges early and often. If I had checked my primary gas PSI earlier I would have realized that I wasn’t using my primary gas.

That’s it. Sorry about the long post and thanks for listening….

I appreciate that you were willing to share what happened. We need more of this in the community.

As others mentioned, I think the suicide clip should be replaced by a necklace. That will solve the principal problem.

Some other suggestions:

An air-integrated computer on your wrist would be a better option, especially when diving solo. Had you had one, you'd have probably noticed that you weren't breathing off your primary.

When I teach solo diving, I teach my students to do technical-style pre-dive checks at the surface. With air-integration, you would have noticed that you were breathing off the wrong reg before you descended if you'd taken a couple of breaths while watching your gauge.

I'd recommend ditching the spg for the pony. It is an additional failure point and if you're using the pony as intended (for emergencies), it doesn't really matter how much air you have. As soon as you make the switch, you should be headed for the surface, and you're going to use as much air as you need in the process. There isn't really a point in having the gauge there. When you're on your pony, you are either going to make an ascent and safety stop etc. with some gas, or you are going to make it through some of the ascent/stop and run out of gas. That gauge isn't doing anything for you.

Alternatively, you could go air-integrated on both bottles, if you feel strongly about your gauge.

I'd also recommend you consider doing an underwater regulator swap at the beginning of each dive. That will force you to confirm that everything is on and working, and in proper position.

 

[johndiver999]

I understand, its a basic scuba forum, but the OP grabbed the wrong second stage, which (according to the OP) was less than ideal. If, in the future, the OP would like to avoid making the same mistake, he should see how it was addressed in the tech community years ago. Dont get hung up on the tech example. It's still grabbing the wrong second stage.

The lesson is falling on deaf ears. There are several very very good reasons why a slung bottle is much safer than a back mounted bottle. These include ability to use when regulator has a problem and the user can feather the valve, it also should prevent the kind of potentially fatal mistake the op made and it is also less of an entanglement hazard if worn as a stage bottle. If the op is going to be stubborn and continue to back mount (like me) then the discussion should be steered toward the safest, most logical manner to set up this non-optimal configuration. We are discussing a solution that is not the safest possible, once you acknowledge that fact, then people can have a more productive discussion.

Btw I am confused. Isn’t the op the same guy who posted multiple pictures of his pony bottle and reg and showed how he used some plastic hose wrap to bind the spg hose to the second stage hose so that the spg is nearly slapping the user in the face? Was that what was used? I would think that configuration should almost entirely preclude a misidentification or confusion with the primary second stage?

 

[jadairiii]

The issue here is draining the much smaller pony and wondering WTF? The issue here is panic.

No, the issue is the OP grabbed the wrong second stage, which then created the "panic". In grabbing the wrong second stage, he (to quote the op) almost killed himself. The "panic" was the end result of the action of grabbing the wrong second stage, from the wrong bottle.

Whether the second stage you grab is attached to a bottle with the wrong mix or just attached to the wrong bottle, outcome could be the same. Why is this so hard to understand?

To quote the esteemed Dr Frank-N-Furter: ".....I'll remove the cause, but not the symptom".

 

[NW Dive Dawg]

Btw I am confused. Isn’t the op the same guy who posted multiple pictures of his pony bottle and reg and showed how he used some plastic hose wrap to bind the spg hose to the second stage hose so that the spg is nearly slapping the user in the face? Was that what was used? I would think that configuration should almost entirely preclude a misidentification or confusion with the primary second stage?

Excellent point John.....and yes I am that guy..... but I still made the stupid mistake...

A contributing factor is that this was a cold water drysuit hunting dive. I was excited to get in the water just like I have a thousand times. For me, placing the primary 2nd into my cake hole and taking several hooves is the last item I do before the back-roll. Once all geared up in my drysuit, 7mm hood, 5mm gloves along with all of my redundant solo gear.....plus speargun and stringer....it's extremely difficult to self visualize everything. The reg felt good, breathed well and neither my wife or I noticed that it was my pony 2nd.....or that my primary 2nd was just hanging there on my right side... I made this stupid mistake and that's what this is all about.

I was in Bonaire just a couple of weeks ago and brought my 13 back mount pony and the exact same reg set-up with the tethered spg. In tropical water with no hood or gloves and just a rashguard I can easily see WAY more and "feel" Way more of what's going on with my equipment than I can here in the PAC NW.

But maybe the most important thing to mention in all of this is the simple fact that I got complacent and lazy and in a hurry and it could have cost me. Instead, the incident has actually "paid" me....because I get to discuss and evaluate it and take steps to make sure it will NEVER happen again.

Once again..... Thanks for the responses... I've taken them all to heart and am making some changes to both my routine and my equipment.......but I'll still solo dive and keep my ponies back-mounted.

 

[davehicks]

Excellent point John.....and yes I am that guy..... but I still made the stupid mistake...

A contributing factor is that this was a cold water drysuit hunting dive. I was excited to get in the water just like I have a thousand times. For me, placing the primary 2nd into my cake hole and taking several hooves is the last item I do before the back-roll. Once all geared up in my drysuit, 7mm hood, 5mm gloves along with all of my redundant solo gear.....plus speargun and stringer....it's extremely difficult to self visualize everything. The reg felt good, breathed well and neither my wife or I noticed that it was my pony 2nd.....or that my primary 2nd was just hanging there on my right side... I made this stupid mistake and that's what this is all about.

I was in Bonaire just a couple of weeks ago and brought my 13 back mount pony and the exact same reg set-up with the tethered spg. In tropical water with no hood or gloves and just a rashguard I can easily see WAY more and "feel" Way more of what's going on with my equipment than I can here in the PAC NW.

But maybe the most important thing to mention in all of this is the simple fact that I got complacent and lazy and in a hurry and it could have cost me. Instead, the incident has actually "paid" me....because I get to discuss and evaluate it and take steps to make sure it will NEVER happen again.

Once again..... Thanks for the responses... I've taken them all to heart and am making some changes to both my routine and my equipment.......but I'll still solo dive and keep my ponies back-mounted.

If you insist on diving with a back mount pony and an air2 then you should be putting the pony reg on a Bungie around your neck.

 

[Wants2divemore]

I'd recommend ditching the spg for the pony. It is an additional failure point and if you're using the pony as intended (for emergencies), it doesn't really matter how much air you have. As soon as you make the switch, you should be headed for the surface, and you're going to use as much air as you need in the process. There isn't really a point in having the gauge there. When you're on your pony, you are either going to make an ascent and safety stop etc. with some gas, or you are going to make it through some of the ascent/stop and run out of gas. That gauge isn't doing anything for you.

Not to derail this topic, but as a newer diver who's starting to use a pony for deeper rec dives (not solo but as an extra safety measure), I'm curious about people's thoughts on ditching the pony SPG.

I've use a small 1" button SPG directly attached to my slung pony's 1st stage for the following reasons:
1. I can check the tank pressure before the dive to make sure my pony is still full.
2. I can check the tank pressure during the dive to make sure it's not leaking.
3. If I have to switch to the pony and begin ascending, I can monitor my gas to make sure I have enough to perform the 3 minute safety stop. (Please don't let this get into a debate about pony bottle size).

What do other people think/do?

*NOTE* If mods think this should be moved out of the Basic Scuba forum, please do so.

 

[Nemrod]

I do not think the OP panicked. If he had panicked he would have bolted to the surface and likely he would not have been able to write the story we are now discussing. He was on the verge of panic but he did not panic. His training, experience and discipline (not to bolt to the surface) saved him.

Just for a contrast to the back mounted buddy bottle, here is my slung bottle and with the alternate air source second stage bungeed to the valve. I am about to dive the Zebulon Pike in TRL. I have a cave filled LP 84 on my back and that is a 19 cf bottle also pumped up tight. I tend to use a 30 now for a similar dive and run a Scubapro Mk-anything with a G250 for primary and a Mk V on the buddy bottle with another G250:



The Zeb in a down scan from the sonar, a relatively large wreck with some penetration: