Tricks for reaching valves and manifold?

[RJP]

Yoga! Fingerwalking! See a good neuromuscular therapist! OK, I guess……or you could do what I do in an emergency: switch regulators, DONE.

Didn't read the other thread - and don't want to dredge up what was obviously an unpleasant experience for you - but do you not shut down the reg connected to the post with the problem? Suppose you had a free-flow situation (which I would not consider an emergency in most situations) you'd simply switch regs and just let the offending reg run the tank empty?

 

[DevonDiver]

I compiled these on my blog:

Technical Diving Skills - Reaching Your Valves

Technical Diving Skills - Valve Shutdown Drill Explained

 

[gypsyjim]

I just have to smile reading this thread. I posted a thread in this same category a few weeks ago titled “Double tank manifolds, bad idea!” in that thread (just a few down from this one) I said:
“You have just installed a complicated life support system behind your back! These valves are difficult to reach (at best) and impossible to see, sure, it can be done (valve drills and all) but that doesn’t mean it’s a good idea. Fumbling with valves behind my head at depth in a stressful, life threatening situation is not inconvenient it’s dangerous and unnecessary”
Well, the reaction from most people on here was, shall we say “less than supporting”.
I understand your taking a class and have to do it “there way” to get through the class, but you should read that thread. You say you haven’t bought your rig yet, so before you spend $200 to $300 bucks on a manifold--you may not be comfortable with--give Independent Doubles a try. There are many advantages to that configuration that the “manifold doubles are THE only configuration crowd” won’t tell you, or more than likely don’t realize themselves.

Yoga! Fingerwalking! See a good neuromuscular therapist! OK, I guess……or you could do what I do in an emergency: switch regulators, DONE.

Didn't read the other thread - and don't want to dredge up what was obviously an unpleasant experience for you - but do you not shut down the reg connected to the post with the problem? Suppose you had a free-flow situation (which I would not consider an emergency in most situations) you'd simply switch regs and just let the offending reg run the tank empty?

While using independent doubles could allow a diver to just switch regs, and ignore the free flowing one, I can easily see where suddenly losing 1/2+ or - of you gas reserves might be something you'd like to be able to prevent. Quickly.

 

[Dive Bug Bit Me]

I had an exciting dive today. My LDS serviced my regs and put two little O rings in the wrong place. I was solo a little deeper than 100 ft when this became evident. I ended up surfacing with my right post and isolator closed.

It it brought home what my instructor had said to me. When you need close down, it doesn't matter what you do, nothing is more important than reaching the valves. There is no second prize for being slow or unable to reach. Make a plan. (My solution is to dive my harness slightly loose so I can move the rig about a little bit on my back).

Today I remember trying to reach (just to check at the start of the dive). It was tight and required a long finger walk. When need arose, I don't remember what I did, I just know I had my hand on that valve. Maybe adrenaline helped but it was instantaneous.

I was surprised how shaken I was afterward.
At least the LDS was decent enough to apologise and repair their error.

 

[Glenn08]

I also found it difficult to reach my tank valves. I solved my problem my mounting my tanks - twin 50's - with the valves down. I am considering trying side mount, but the shops that I have talked to don't even blink when they tell me $1000 plus.

 

[tskovan]

Didn't read the other thread - and don't want to dredge up what was obviously an unpleasant experience for you - but do you not shut down the reg connected to the post with the problem? Suppose you had a free-flow situation (which I would not consider an emergency in most situations) you'd simply switch regs and just let the offending reg run the tank empty?

Yes.

You could shut down and try to recover a free-flow, if you want to, but I wouldn’t continue a dive with a known malfunctioning regulator and since you always keep enough gas in either tank to turn the dive and get back safely why bother?
The other thread wasn’t an “unpleasant experience” on the contrary, it was a pretty interesting debate, but I sure got a lot of people saying how easy and simple it is to reach your valves, that’s why I found this thread rather amusing (Some of the same posters, by the way).
I prefer ID’s for there simplicity, true redundancy and convenience, for me that out weighs the ability to possibly save more gas in certain situations. I think a lot of people just except that the way they were taught is “the right way” and don’t keep an open mind to different ways of doing things.

 

[Diver0001]

I'm halfway done with Tec 40 after completing dive 1 and 2 yesterday and felt comfortable with all exercises EXCEPT for valve shutdown drills. I'm not very flexible, and with some effort can reach the right post and manifold, but just can't reach the left valve without a LOT of effort... loosening the buckle and crotch strap by a few inches and moving to a VERY head down attitude and its still a struggle.

Are there any tricks for this? Considering I'm still using rental gear (not in a position to invest in my own doubles or BP/W yet), what can I do? I can move the bands a little bit, but I'm on the top hole of the plate. I'm diving in a drysuit and don't feel that its constricting me, just my muscles/tendons preventing me from going all the way.

Are there any recommended stretches? Tricks? Tips?

A couple of thoughts:

- the suit could potentially be restricting your reach. If you're in a drysuit then trying a different undergarment might make a difference.

- pitching forward and using the right hand to push the tanks up over your head will mean that you don't have to reach as far back with your left arm.

- moving the elbow (this is common) from "outside" the line of your shoulder forward so it's in front of your shoulder will give you a few more cm.

- there's nothing that says you can't use your right arm to push the left arm back via the elbow. You might have the mechanical flexibility but lack the muscle tone to move your arm back that far. In any case this is something you can try.

- depending on your configuration you may entertain the idea of moving the tanks up a little higher on your back. This could win a couple of cm.

- training the flexibiliy in the shoulder could help get you a couple of extra cm too. Stretch by holding the elbow in front and pushing up with the other arm while reaching as far down your spine as you can.

I'm sure people will come with other suggestions too.

Good luck.

R..

 

[Garth]

I have since moved to rebreathers and inverted cylinders which make it a lot easier to reach the valves but when I was diving doubles I did find a few things helpful.

1: diving in thin undergarments when necessary was perfect and I could reach valves rather easily.

2: reach for the valves as soon as you enter the water. Turn them a bit and then back to open all the way.

I found that if I reached for them prior to having the problem I could reach them when there was one. I only had two mandatory shutdowns and they both went well. The first one I reached back and shut down the post.

The second which included a blown environmental seal, blown hp seat and basically the whole reg which sounded like a metal bat to my doubles. For this one my buddy was right next to me and shut down my post while I was still troubleshooting the second stage free flow. I lost hearing for a few minutes in my left ear because of this. Rather scary due to the noise but there was never any concern for gas.

Diving with a competent buddy can save your butt on a few occasions.


Garth

---------- Post added November 3rd, 2013 at 02:51 PM ----------

I have since moved to rebreathers and inverted cylinders which make it a lot easier to reach the valves but when I was diving doubles I did find a few things helpful.

1: diving in thin undergarments when necessary was perfect and I could reach valves rather easily.

2: reach for the valves as soon as you enter the water. Turn them a bit and then back to open all the way.

I found that if I reached for them prior to having the problem I could reach them when there was one. I only had two mandatory shutdowns and they both went well. The first one I reached back and shut down the post.

The second which included a blown environmental seal, blown hp seat and basically the whole reg which sounded like a metal bat to my doubles. For this one my buddy was right next to me and shut down my post while I was still troubleshooting the second stage free flow. I lost hearing for a few minutes in my left ear because of this. Rather scary due to the noise but there was never any concern for gas.

Diving with a competent buddy can save your butt on a few occasions.


Garth

 

[DevonDiver]

I am considering trying side mount, but the shops that I have talked to don't even blink when they tell me $1000 plus.

$1000 plus for what?!?

Sidemount is, indeed, a very effective option for those who struggle to reach back-mounted valves.

There is a necessary and specific technique to shutting down back-mount. There are also common errors, especially in arm motion to reach the valves. Most divers struggle with it initially, but an hour of decent tuition normally permits a very slick drill.

That said, there will always be some with a legitimate difficulty (reduced shoulder mobility, rather than incorrect technique). For them, sidemount is the obvious answer. Sidemount shutdowns are a piece of cake - I can get all students doing a full shutdown drill in 30 seconds within 15 minutes of water practice..

 

[Michael Guerrero]

The downside of sidemount/IDs of course being you can't access the gas from a tank with a bad 1st/2nd stage.

I get into my suit, wet or dry, and do some reaching stretches before I put my rig on. This moves everything up. I do them again after I put the rig on.