Training fatality after Instructor held student down - Stoney Cove, UK

[Bob DBF]

Yes, in retrospect, since this diver died, we are all tempted to say that we would have definitely surfaced him since he was clearly dying. All I'm saying is that I doubt that the instructor's thought process was

I am not an instructor, my actions are not constrained by proper training procedures, and I have surfaced to resolve issues, which is why i brought it up.

 

[Celt]

I am not an instructor, my actions are not constrained by proper training procedures, and I have surfaced to resolve issues, which is why i brought it up.

Definitely Bob, the rule book may have said “do a safety stop” but common sense said surface. There’s always more options on the surface.

 

[Alaskan Scuba Dude]

This article’s explicit message forewarns the dangers of arrogant and conceited instructors in the (I answer to no one) self-regulated and blink of an eye scuba education. It would seem comical if it had not been tragic. No doubt, a guilty verdict should be unanimous.

 

[boulderjohn]

This article’s explicit message forewarns the dangers of arrogant and conceited instructors in the (I answer to no one) self-regulated and blink of an eye scuba education. It would seem comical if it had not been tragic. No doubt, a guilty verdict should be unanimous.

It's good that we have someone like you who has seen all the evidence and has heard all the testimony and is thus able to come to an objective conclusion without any hint of personal bias clouding that decision.

 

[doctormike]

This article’s explicit message forewarns the dangers of arrogant and conceited instructors in the (I answer to no one) self-regulated and blink of an eye scuba education. It would seem comical if it had not been tragic. No doubt, a guilty verdict should be unanimous.

Yup. After all, that's how we do trials. The prosecutor presents their case and the jury decides. We don't need to hear from the defendant if someone has a feeling that they might be "arrogant and conceited".

As far as "blink of an eye education", not sure how you are getting that. The language of the article is a bit confusing, but it sounds like he has been an instructor for 10 years and was an (assistant) instructor trainer.

 

[doctormike]

And even if the prosecutor's version of events is fair, I still think that we need address a common mistake in accident analysis. The idea that if you can just find and punish a "bad actor" enough, that will deal with systemic problems.

I strongly encourage you all to check out Gareth Lock's "Human Diver" project, and in particular the documentary that he produced with Ashley Bugge ("If Only"). It's an amazing analysis of the events leading up to the death of Ashley's husband during rebreather training in 2018. It really demonstrates the importance of getting past the natural instinct to stick a bunch of blame on one person and then move on.

 

[OMyMyOHellYes]

The only stops that are needed are decompression stops, there is never a need to do a safety stop. I’ve never done one. There are reasons when getting to the surface promptly is essential and a diver in distress is one of those reasons. It was ridiculous to force a diver on a training dive to do an unnecessary stop.

Not commenting on the case or alleged responsibility. Nothing to do with culpability, guilt or innocence.

Recreational = within NDL limits = NO required stop, safety or otherwise, to the surface. Best practice to do one? Yep. Always advised under normal operations? Yep. But required? Nope.

Heck, to me, the same applies to emergency ascent rate. Depending on available air for the ascent, an emergency controlled ascent rate of 60 fpm, not 30 fpm, may be advised. May even allow for a safety stop.

OMMOHY

 

[Blackcrusader]

This article’s explicit message forewarns the dangers of arrogant and conceited instructors in the (I answer to no one) self-regulated and blink of an eye scuba education. It would seem comical if it had not been tragic. No doubt, a guilty verdict should be unanimous.

How do you know the the instructor is arrogant and conceited?

Whatever the verdict it is my opinion whenever you have a diver in distress and showing signs of panic is to assist them to the surface.
This is a case of an instructor who knows safety stops are always optional and not a requirement. Even if it had been a deco dive the same bring to surface where diver could be brought to a chamber for treatment. All the dive boats I dive on have O2 bottles. Not sure what people do about shore dives.

 

[Bob DBF]

This article’s explicit message forewarns the dangers of arrogant and conceited instructors in the (I answer to no one) self-regulated and blink of an eye scuba education. It would seem comical if it had not been tragic. No doubt, a guilty verdict should be unanimous.

Well that would all depend on what actually happened that day. If you have read may threads in this forum, you would know the accuracy of the reporting in the articles leaves much to be desired. So they are only the facts according to how the reporter thinks he heard and understands them, from people that may or may not be evolved.

 

[Blackcrusader]

Well that would all depend on what actually happened that day. If you have read may threads in this forum, you would know the accuracy of the reporting in the articles leaves much to be desired. So they are only the facts according to how the reporter thinks he heard and understands them, from people that may or may not be evolved.

From a reporter who probably has no dive training or diving experience?　
How does it happen that an instructor and also an another dive master assisting on the same dive let a student get to an OOA situation in the first place?