Tourist dead, 7 arrested - India
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@Steve_C
Venturing further off topic, pardon:
Interesting perspective.
Funny how that works.
Schools in rich districts with parents paying for all sorts of extra schooling and tutoring get all the credit for the achievements of "their kids".
Universities that are extremely hard to get into are great because of how they teach, never because of how they filter ... or "weed out"...
And you just put a new perspective on what some swimming instructors might possibly do...
What might a scuba school do? Obviously not hold someone under until it works or else... , but they all filter, for understandable reasons to some extent to weed out the water phobic and non-swimmers. That makes a lot of sense of course. Why scuba schools don't partner up with swim schools or swim instructors (and be it just on a referral basis), that strict "swimming is none of my business, only diving" approach is a little beyond me, but it's how it is. Not saying it is wrong that way, just noticing how it is.
Almost all advise I received on how a water timid person might learn scuba was focused on learning to be a decent swimmer and comfortable in the water first. And it makes a lot of sense in principle. And a non swimmer does really have no business in the water as a diver.
Except, if you've ever seen a person who used to completely panic uncontrolled in deeper water blossom and "light up" on a try dive in a shallow pool, you cannot help but wonder if there could not be a safe combined approach to swimming and diving for such people... to get them to overcome their fears with the aid of diving (controlled, supervised, shallow...) so that they mentally become ready to even accept the task to learn to swim... Just thinkIng aloud.... and thinking that's sort of what happened with a person I know...
Venturing further off topic, pardon:
Interesting perspective.
Funny how that works.
Schools in rich districts with parents paying for all sorts of extra schooling and tutoring get all the credit for the achievements of "their kids".
Universities that are extremely hard to get into are great because of how they teach, never because of how they filter ... or "weed out"...
And you just put a new perspective on what some swimming instructors might possibly do...
What might a scuba school do? Obviously not hold someone under until it works or else... , but they all filter, for understandable reasons to some extent to weed out the water phobic and non-swimmers. That makes a lot of sense of course. Why scuba schools don't partner up with swim schools or swim instructors (and be it just on a referral basis), that strict "swimming is none of my business, only diving" approach is a little beyond me, but it's how it is. Not saying it is wrong that way, just noticing how it is.
Almost all advise I received on how a water timid person might learn scuba was focused on learning to be a decent swimmer and comfortable in the water first. And it makes a lot of sense in principle. And a non swimmer does really have no business in the water as a diver.
Except, if you've ever seen a person who used to completely panic uncontrolled in deeper water blossom and "light up" on a try dive in a shallow pool, you cannot help but wonder if there could not be a safe combined approach to swimming and diving for such people... to get them to overcome their fears with the aid of diving (controlled, supervised, shallow...) so that they mentally become ready to even accept the task to learn to swim... Just thinkIng aloud.... and thinking that's sort of what happened with a person I know...
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people who cannot swim should not be scuba diving.. relying on gear to save your life as a replacement for swimming ability is a recipe for disaster.
its only a matter of time until the wrong set of circumstances come up and being able to swim becomes the last thing keeping you alive. you guys know murphy is always creepin...
anyone who has ever been swimming and inadvertently taken in a big breath of water instead of air knows how quickly a simple controlled water treading exercise turns into panic trying to get that next breath of air.. for someone who cannot swim..6 feet of water may as well be 60 feet if they maybe get hit by a small wave in the face..which causes that little inhale of water...the terror sets in ...stumble in the water and its a bad day..
the time between inhale of water and blackout is very short ..especially if you only got a tiny bit of air into your lungs before the water ingestion..you have nothing in your lungs to exhale and cough the water out to get that next lung full
really sad how no one wants to accept responsibility for their own safety.. i cant imagine relying solely on someone else to save me..
My son and i just finished our OW and nitrox...i have previous dive experience he does not. he wants to go deeper...and he gets a little impatient with me...but were gonna do it my way...
we have 15 dives at no more than 20 feet
next were doing 10 at no more than 40
then 10 more at no more than 60..
past that around my area there is not much to see other than just knowing we went to a deeper depth just to do it.. i want to make sure that hes ready..that he knows his equipment,,where everything is..what to do in emergencies..how to communicate..when im happy we move forward...PERIOD..
these things do not guarantee anything.. but one has to do their best to minimize and manage the risk involved...because their is risk and there are no second chances under water.. we have more dives in pool than anything else LOL.. but we drill over and over ..on out of air..buddy breathing.. hand signals.. free flowing regulator breathing....mask removal and purging..breathing without a mask ...ESA/approximating a safe ascent rate and exhale during esa .... i have programmed him to check his SPG every 10 minutes and more frequently deeper dives..never to fully trust computers..LOL
we sit in the shallow end and take turns turning each others air off and try to do it gently enough that we dont feel it being turned off.. so that we both feel what its like and the feeling of running out of air when your not expecting it.. then getting to the 30cf spare bottle ..without standing up... he manages to do it every time... i only make it 3 out of 5 times usually (dont know how he does it)
and even though we both have computers i still drill him on figuring MOD..planning dives on paper.. and using separate depth gauge/stopwatch/SPG in case of computer or battery failure .he checks my gear and i check his..every time no exceptions..we have a checklist by the numbers... if anything doesn't check out..then no dive...we say NO JIVE NO DIVE
i dont want one of us to have to watch the other die because of something that could have been prevented or because of something stupid. i want to do everything i can do to make sure he always stays safe...and now that hes learning is the right time to teach him the right way to do things and that there are no shortcuts.. i have taught him that there is no shame in being scared of drowning. LOL.. to know his limits and never exceed them by diving at a skill level that he is not trained to dive at... no matter what some other idiot diver may try to convince him is ok.
some might say im overdoing it.. that may be the case ..but hes my son .. and still get nervous every time we go diving.. even though hes a natural in water and knows his gear and procedures.. i still get scared ..
truly sad about the person who drowned..it was completely preventable..and 100 percent of the power to prevent it was in his hands. even if other people may have culpability ...which based on what little i know , it really seems like just a witch hunt..but maybe other details will come to light
of course i cant say since we dont have all of the facts.. but what i do know is that he had the power to stop his own passing.
stay safe guys
its only a matter of time until the wrong set of circumstances come up and being able to swim becomes the last thing keeping you alive. you guys know murphy is always creepin...
anyone who has ever been swimming and inadvertently taken in a big breath of water instead of air knows how quickly a simple controlled water treading exercise turns into panic trying to get that next breath of air.. for someone who cannot swim..6 feet of water may as well be 60 feet if they maybe get hit by a small wave in the face..which causes that little inhale of water...the terror sets in ...stumble in the water and its a bad day..
the time between inhale of water and blackout is very short ..especially if you only got a tiny bit of air into your lungs before the water ingestion..you have nothing in your lungs to exhale and cough the water out to get that next lung full
really sad how no one wants to accept responsibility for their own safety.. i cant imagine relying solely on someone else to save me..
My son and i just finished our OW and nitrox...i have previous dive experience he does not. he wants to go deeper...and he gets a little impatient with me...but were gonna do it my way...
we have 15 dives at no more than 20 feet
next were doing 10 at no more than 40
then 10 more at no more than 60..
past that around my area there is not much to see other than just knowing we went to a deeper depth just to do it.. i want to make sure that hes ready..that he knows his equipment,,where everything is..what to do in emergencies..how to communicate..when im happy we move forward...PERIOD..
these things do not guarantee anything.. but one has to do their best to minimize and manage the risk involved...because their is risk and there are no second chances under water.. we have more dives in pool than anything else LOL.. but we drill over and over ..on out of air..buddy breathing.. hand signals.. free flowing regulator breathing....mask removal and purging..breathing without a mask ...ESA/approximating a safe ascent rate and exhale during esa .... i have programmed him to check his SPG every 10 minutes and more frequently deeper dives..never to fully trust computers..LOL
we sit in the shallow end and take turns turning each others air off and try to do it gently enough that we dont feel it being turned off.. so that we both feel what its like and the feeling of running out of air when your not expecting it.. then getting to the 30cf spare bottle ..without standing up... he manages to do it every time... i only make it 3 out of 5 times usually (dont know how he does it)
and even though we both have computers i still drill him on figuring MOD..planning dives on paper.. and using separate depth gauge/stopwatch/SPG in case of computer or battery failure .he checks my gear and i check his..every time no exceptions..we have a checklist by the numbers... if anything doesn't check out..then no dive...we say NO JIVE NO DIVE
i dont want one of us to have to watch the other die because of something that could have been prevented or because of something stupid. i want to do everything i can do to make sure he always stays safe...and now that hes learning is the right time to teach him the right way to do things and that there are no shortcuts.. i have taught him that there is no shame in being scared of drowning. LOL.. to know his limits and never exceed them by diving at a skill level that he is not trained to dive at... no matter what some other idiot diver may try to convince him is ok.
some might say im overdoing it.. that may be the case ..but hes my son .. and still get nervous every time we go diving.. even though hes a natural in water and knows his gear and procedures.. i still get scared ..
truly sad about the person who drowned..it was completely preventable..and 100 percent of the power to prevent it was in his hands. even if other people may have culpability ...which based on what little i know , it really seems like just a witch hunt..but maybe other details will come to light
of course i cant say since we dont have all of the facts.. but what i do know is that he had the power to stop his own passing.
stay safe guys
Bogtrotter
Contributor
Maybe it was a dive skin, or forgot to take his belt off..? I never thought it was essential to be a good swimmer to dive, but you should be able tread water comfortably with some means of mobility. Very sad.
NAUI Wowie
Contributor
Old thread sorry for bringing it back but it seems to me that the man who drowned wading back in at the shore likely thought his wetsuit would keep him boyant and from drowning. If it was a very old 3 mil or 2 3 then it probably provided not much boyancy and he drowned himself. he could be five foot six inches tall in six foot of water. if he cant swim then theres only one thing that would happen.
HI Yes its an old thread and its been mostly resolved.
I know alot of the people involved in the incident and investigation and below is my take on what happened or was the story going around.
The dive site gets deeper gradually and one can walk in a good 50Mt before your chin deep, Then at about 80Mt from shore, it drops to 5mt deep. Most of the Try dives are done with very cheap/old wetsuits and they offer no Bouyance. in this case it was rumored that the Lifeguards were sleeping under a tree. The body recovery(search) was performed by a member of the Dive center where the boy(26 is a boy in India, when with parents) did his Try dive with. Some people believe (marine police investigation has concluded this was not the case) that he was still wearing his weight belt and that it was later removed(during recovery)
One of the issues was that the clients were at that time left to walk back to shore from inside the water(with weight belts sometimes) and that when the family asked the instructors where their son was they did not take him missing seriously till after an hour, they kept saying he's around somewhere.
This case lead to alot of speculation about what happened and diving was suspended( for all dive centers) for 2-3 months, alot of the locals got only partial pay and everyone suffered.
I believe that as long as there is a push from customers to drive down the price for a discover scuba Dive(at that time the Dive center was getting 20USD per dive, the travel agent 30USD) corners will be cut and accidents will happen.
Since then the min certification required for doing a dsd(GOVT) has been brought from rescue to Divemaster and the number of dives an instructor or divemaster can do has been limited.
I know alot of the people involved in the incident and investigation and below is my take on what happened or was the story going around.
The dive site gets deeper gradually and one can walk in a good 50Mt before your chin deep, Then at about 80Mt from shore, it drops to 5mt deep. Most of the Try dives are done with very cheap/old wetsuits and they offer no Bouyance. in this case it was rumored that the Lifeguards were sleeping under a tree. The body recovery(search) was performed by a member of the Dive center where the boy(26 is a boy in India, when with parents) did his Try dive with. Some people believe (marine police investigation has concluded this was not the case) that he was still wearing his weight belt and that it was later removed(during recovery)
One of the issues was that the clients were at that time left to walk back to shore from inside the water(with weight belts sometimes) and that when the family asked the instructors where their son was they did not take him missing seriously till after an hour, they kept saying he's around somewhere.
This case lead to alot of speculation about what happened and diving was suspended( for all dive centers) for 2-3 months, alot of the locals got only partial pay and everyone suffered.
I believe that as long as there is a push from customers to drive down the price for a discover scuba Dive(at that time the Dive center was getting 20USD per dive, the travel agent 30USD) corners will be cut and accidents will happen.
Since then the min certification required for doing a dsd(GOVT) has been brought from rescue to Divemaster and the number of dives an instructor or divemaster can do has been limited.
