Tougher Standards?

[MA]

I wouldn't be too concerned about the article. AUF don't seem to have anything to do with the government. It's probably just a push for their own purposes.

It is just ridiculous to even suggest it without understanding the various reasons for the deaths, which won't be known until the coroner reports.

Membership for CMAS Diver Certification

 

[Aquapro Dive Services]

I think the problem with those stats you posted WetPup is that they lump snorkeling deaths in alongside diving so get counts. Most of the snorkeling "deaths" we use are due to pre existing medical conditions e.g. the snorkeler was inexperienced and overexerted themselves leading to heat attack. Even spear fishing accidents get lumped in.

Unfortunately I have been involved with a few deaths on the Reef over the years and all bar 2 were heart attacks or strokes.

Australia has higher fatalities as we have more numbers, but if you look at the percentage death per diver is fractional compared to Asia. We have some of the toughest standards with the medical questionnaires having to be filled out for snorkelers and divers on every trip out to the Reef, restricted numbers in groups and having to have an in-water guide for snorkelers with certain medical conditions. We even have to refuse to allow people to snorkel without a doctors certificate in some instances, so I don't see how we can make things tougher.

 

[JamesBon92007]

Google searching:
Fatality rates calculated per exposure vary from 0.57 per 100,000 dives in Australia to 4 (range 3-6) per 100,000 dives in Orkney, Scotland.

From DAN-AP data:

I think when you look at it in terms of absolute numbers, it doesn't look great. Law of averages - the more dives undertaken the more incidents will occur. But when you look at it in terms of fatalities per number of dives undertaken, Australia is quite low.

Any idea where they get their "per dives" numbers? I mean, if they can't regulate shore divers and those with their own boats how can they even count them? Or are those divers not included?

 

[WetPup]

Any idea where they get their "per dives" numbers? I mean, if they can't regulate shore divers and those with their own boats how can they even count them? Or are those divers not included?

Have a look at Table 1 in the link to the source. The "per dives" sources range from "estimated" to "based on tank fills" to "surveys". I'm guessing in some countries it's easier to track because of access to dive sites. Harder in places like the US or Australia with so many divers who do their own thing.

 

[clownfishsydney]

AUF only represent speafishers and underwater hockey players, not a single dive club or dive shop would agree to them representing scuba divers.

A lot of the diving deaths (snorkelling and scuba) in Australia are tourists. In many cases, they are people who probably cannot even swim and come here to visit the GBR and decide to dive or snorkel, even if they have never done it before (or in the case of certified divers - have virtually no experience).

You only have to go on any of the tourist operations out of Cairns or Port Douglas to see that less than 10% appear to have any real experience of the ocean.

About 20 years ago after a series of deaths in Sydney, the Coroner referred the matter to the relevant Minister and Government department. I went along to a meeting with the department's officers (representing scuba divers - I was president of the Scuba Divers Association of NSW at the time) and they straight up advised that they would not be doing anything adverse as they did not see what they could do to improve safety (our view was that it needed to be much harder to become a dive instructor - experience wise - so that there were not people with just over 100 dives teaching others). Anyway, nothing happened.

Certainly, in NSW in more recent years there have not been that many deaths of experienced divers that have not been easily explained by what happened on the dive (eg one was a medical condition, one was a diver running out of air and over-weighted, one was a CCR who ignored error messages, one was a CCR who stuffed up big time, aone was a CCR who took off CCR in a wreck and became separated from it, another was a very deep dive where the diver appeared to possibly use the wrong mix on way down). Very few have been normal run of the mill dives as far as I remember.

What can be done? Probably nothing, apart from on the GBR ensuring that old and possible very unfit people are advised against snorkelling.

 

[Aquapro Dive Services]

Clownfishsydney has hit the nail on the head. Exactly right.

As for what can be done? We already do try to weed out the unfit and very old if they cannot show some form of experience of pre fitness. So I doubt much more can be done

 

[Diving Dubai]

There is always a knee jerk reaction.

In the UK we had a spate of drownings from boats (I think it was 8 in one year). There were calls for legislation to make life jackets compulsory

The RYA (Royal Yacht association) decided to look at the problem.

When they reported back, they agreed that there were too many deaths and that yes it should be compulsory to wear life jackets when using water craft.

But since there had been 12 drownings that year with people taking a bath, then life jackets should be compulsory for that too.

The nail in the coffin was that there had been more than 8 people drown in their car that year, so the RYA proposed that it made equal sense that life jackets be compulsory when driving a vehicle.

The proposed legislation went away....

When looking at statistics to bring about change, it's worth looking at the bigger picture

 

[bowlofpetunias]

I also remember reading in DAN Asia Pacific magazine that the statistics are also weighted by the reporting systems or lack thereof. The systems in place in OZ mean that dive incidents are reported and investigated consistently. Some countries do not have systems in place to report or investigate incidents. They also lack the media coverage to ensure the public hear about them.

I like the adage... "There are lies, there are bloomin lies then there are statistics." Statistics will say whatever the statistician wants to say.

 

[Hickdive]

The bulk of "diving deaths" happen to be heart attacks.

Someone that is going to have a heart attack could equally well have it whilst walking or cycling down the street. Are these referred to as "walking or cycling down the street deaths"? Is there a national "governing body" demanding more stringent legislation controlling who is allowed to walk or cycle down the street?

Deaths whilst diving need to be separated out from deaths caused by diving before any meaningful discussion can be held.