Tough training

[Nautilus]

Hello forum members!

I just want to submit for discusion the following issue:

I'm a FMAS/CMAS ** (two star) Diver and while taking our certification courses, one of the excercises must of us in class had to do, was to jump from the 3 meter trampoline with all of our scuba equipment in our hands anad had to put it on before emerging. Another excercise, close to the finish of the course (** two star) was again to jump from the 3 meter trampoline with the all the scuba equipment in place.

I know that CMAS/FMAS standards differ from the more recreative standards of US certifying agencies like PADI or NAUI as it considers SCUBA diving more like a Sport than recreation if you understand me.

For what I know, probably YMCA has tougher training requirements to become certified.

What are your opinions about this practices?

Happy Diving!

Nautilus Baja

 

[Rick Murchison]

I can't believe someone's still doing this stuff.
Back when I did my initial cert with YMCA we did that kind of thing, and other useless "macho" stuff (like swimming 25 meters underwater to the gear and then putting it on).
Someone finally asked "Why?" and as there was no answer that made any sense, recreational courses junked most of it.
Rick

 

[Nautilus]

Well, to give some more info, I know why we still do that.....It helps us acquire intimacy with our equipment, which we should be able to handle blindfolded. Also, it helps you gain confidence. From time to time, I guess we will have to jump into the open sea from more than 2 meters high from a ship (there are some that provide a platform to climb back in. Yes, we still do that.

 

[Nautilus]

It also helps to dive safely, and one last comment......CMAS/FMAS is not a recreative certifying agency.

 

[Iguana Don]

Nautilus,

Please explain the difference.

ID

 

[large_diver]

I know Nautilus means 3 meter diving board, but as I thought of the image of someone jumping on a trampoline with their scuba gear in their arms, I laughed out loud......

 

[Rick Murchison]

Uh, just exactly which boat are ye divin' from that has a three meter gunwhale?
I can sit here and make up ridiculous things to do that will help you "acquire intimacy" with your equipment all day long, but unless there's a practical application of the skill then a more efficient approach would be to spend the time drilling with the equipment doing things we actually do in diving.
If a student asks "Why are we doing this?" and I have to fall back on "to gain intimacy with our equipment" I know I'm wasting time that could be better spent practicing something we *do* do.
Oh, yes, and then there's the most probable real reasons programs cling to many of these drills... (1) "That's the standard" or "My instructor made me do it and you're gonna do it too" or "We've always done it that way" and (2) "My training was tougher than your training."
(Unless you trained pre-1970 or with the military, my training *was* tougher than your training, but much of it was pure military carryover and totally unnecessary for civilian diving)
Rick

 

[Nautilus]

The differences:

Lenght of training. While it took me about 2-3 months to complete my first star, a PADI OW course takes 2 weekends, and I've seen it advertised for 1 week.

PADI AOW takes about the same time, 2 weekends if I'm not mistaken, while our two star course takes about 4 months (but it also includes underwater navigation, night diving, etc.).

And our three star course which I believe is equivalent to PADI DM will take one year to complete.

All of these are very (without forgetting the theory) intensive courses that promote physical fitness; we do a lot of swimming, also we do endless repetitions of excercises to help us gain confidence in ourselves and to know our equipment inside out. Taking it off while in the pool (including the wetsuit) and putting everything back on, mask purging, air sharing, rescue drills, jumping from the 3 meter trampoline with Scuba equipment in our hands so we can don it while in the water, also jumping with all the scuba equipment on, we even know how to breathe straight from an air tank without using a regulator (emergency procedures), we have been blindfolded and had to navigate in the pool maintaining a midwater position.

I know a lot of you will laugh at us for jumping from the trampoline, but then again, we can go diving from a shrimp boat (there are no platforms) and climb up using the nets.

Then, when it was time for our first open water experience, we had drilled so many times that we went straight into diving while our PADI friends were practicing in the sea what we did so many times in the pool (BC control, mask purging, etc.).

As for the term I used "acquire intimacy" with our equipment, well, you can interpret my words anyway you want.

And I guess that with the evolution of the diving industry, some certifying agencies went into developing recreational diving.

FMAS (Mexican Federation of Underwater Activities) is sanctioned by CMAS (World Underwater Federation) and it still maintains some of the 'old days' training standards that were kind of militaristic.

Personally, I don't have any regrets doing this type of training, and also there is one more thing involved here:
Cost.

Since FMAS is not a by Profit organization, costs are lower.

Hope that helps explain the difference as I see it.

And I have a question for Rick,
Why do you consider useless what you call 'macho stuff'? Didn't it ever help you out in any situation?

Happy diving to all of you!

Nautilus

 

[Aegir]

Hi Nautilus

What is the point of this post. It looks like you started this thread so you could explain how CMAS is superior to most other diving agnecy's. Of course i could be wrong.

I certainly agree with Rick. Jumping off a 3 meter platform/diving board!!, this is a completely pointless excersise for a recreational diver to perform, although i bet its fun Maybe the reason why its in the course? The training you mentioned is what most people do in there own spare time after they have been certified. Many of the things you mentioned are probably useless to most rec divers anyway. We did alot of extra stuff in the pool like you mentioned,like taking off equipment getting out of the pool (4 metres depth) then diving back in and putting it on again. This sort of thing is there for fun not because it is essential. At the end of the day it depends what you want out of diving. It sounds like you spend vast amounts of time in the pool Nautilus? While my course only took 2 weekends, i suppose i was one of the few that didnt need much attention during training. So while you were practising (probably over the top) skills in the pool i was out gaining experience in the ocean. Did you practise mask loss scenarios (for example) in the ocean with a swift current, in the dark? Probably not but this is the kind of thing we all do from time to time to keep us all sharp.

Nautilus you are making out as if diving is a difficult thing for people to do. I am sorry but that just isnt the case...it aint rocket science.

 

[Nautilus]

Hi Aegir:
If you read my original post, I only started asking what the members of this forum think about some of the exercises that are still performed in our classes.

It was not my intention whatsoever to imply that one agency is better than the other, I have no basis or proof to do that.

Someone asked me about differences and I espressed my opinion with the elements that I know.

I've done all the drills that you refer to in the pool and in the ocean, but this extra practice in the pool makes it easier in the ocean, and not all the sessions are in the pool.

Our diving certificates come with an expiration date, they are good for two years only, and to renew, you have to prove your capacity and take practical and written tests.

Diving is not difficult at all (at least for me)and never said that, but is not for everybody.

Nautilus.