Total of 12 dives and already a few lessons and one almost "near miss"

[BlueTrin]

It's not that hard. You test to have enough weight to get down, and add 5 pounds to that for an AL80. The 5 assumes you will finish the dive with 500-700 psi left in the tank.

Isn’t it safer to just add the full weight of air ?

Or are we not doing it because we would just not do any safety stop with 500 psi of air ?

 

[Manatee Diver]

This is why I prefer to take my new gear to a fresh water spring for the test dive. Since you aren't on a tight schedule you have plenty of time for weight checks, making sure everything is working on land, followed by testing it in shallow water, and if the spring is deep enough making sure that everything works down at 100ft (30m) or so. You also have time to just float around doing things like practicing to using all your dumps.

 

[tursiops]

Isn’t it safer to just add the full weight of air ?

Or are we not doing it because we would just not do any safety stop with 500 psi of air ?

Fine, add 6 lbs.

 

[YZed426]

Thanks for the responses, people. Lot of good info in here. Definitely going to upgrade my BCD checks in the future. Some general response before I reply to a few specific posts/comments.

This dive has, in NO WAY, reduced my or my buddys desire to dive, it's just reinforced our self relience. We had a plan for our dive, but were given a different one. In hindsight, we should have just said we were going to decend at the boat after we were comfortable, do some circles, play some games and make adjustments. Unfortunatly, our lack of experience and clear understanding of the whole dive boat politics lead us to feel like we had to comply with the DMs wishes. That is no longer our belief.

Re the testing new gear in open water. We were assured that this dive would be suitable, and we would agree with that if we'd done our own thing. At no point(except when the DM dumped my buddys BCD) were we at risk. Although the chop was uncomfortable; it wasn't submerging us, there was no current to speak of, and we had a hard, fairly shallow bottom. We were never "uncomfortable", just frustrated. I do, understand the sentiment though.

 

[YZed426]

The OW and AOW courses, to me, are introductory courses to introduce you to knowledge and skills. I don't think after having completed them that you can declare yourself competent enough to rent some gear and dive on your own, or with a similarly experienced buddy. Further, at unknown dive sites, it's better to have a guide that knows the local conditions. The declaration that you are responsible for your own safety is because you are. The guide/DM will usually assist, but they can't watch everyone all the time.

I agree with this, and that's how they sell it. That there'll be this nice easy transition into higher levels of diving. But once you're out in the big world of charters, your experience seems to have little bearing on how you're handled, so you better damned well be competent enough to hire your own gear and go diving with your similiarly experienced buddy, because that's what you might end up with.

If you have to climb a ladder to get onto the boat, you usually have to remove your fins. Handing the fins to the crew is the common practice, though you could also throw it aboard (with the risk that it might fall into the water if you toss poorly).

This may be the common practise, but it's one I intend to avoid. Just got to work on the logistics.

 

[YZed426]

We all have learned lessons the hard way when we start diving, you are a step ahead by adequately analyzing the entire experience. I think that should be your biggest take away from this, continue to do this even if it is minor issues.

As for weighting, you will continue to adjust your weight and trim for a good many dives under different conditions. Gear changes can shift or change weights. Fresh versus salt will change it. You will become more efficient and confident and can typically run lower weight then.

Definitely dont let someone else change your plan. It's easy to try to go with the flow as a new diver and blow it off as "well they are dm and know better" or they have a 1000 dives and know better. They dont know better for you, dont be afraid to be solid in your resolve. They will respect it, and if they dont find someone else to dive with.

This was our biggest takeaway. It's the first time we've experienced it, as it was the first time we approached a dive with our own goals in mind. I won't go so far as to say my respect for DMs had diminished, but my reverance for them has certainly taken a hit

For the bcd issue, always inflate until you feel the squeeze of the jacket after donning and checks but before your stride. I have 40lb lift on mine and I use most of it on entry. This ensures a quick pop to surface and time to check and adjust gear and buddies before decent.

Finally dont let these issues discourage you, instead continue to use these as a learning tool. Experience will give you the comfort and confidence you need.

Ceartainly not discouraged, more "steeled in our resolve to become independant divers".

 

[BlueTrin]

If you want to climb on the boat with your fins, I find that it works better with the ladder where there is only a single vertical bar in the middle of the ladder.

For traditional ladders with a vertical metal bar on each sides it is hard to get the fin in and out. If you use fairly soft fins you risk bending them by folding them and stepping on them, as you cannot see them when climbing.

 

[YZed426]

Not sure about your OW and AOW course, but in the PADI OW course two things that I KNOW are explicitly covered are:

1. Plan your dive with your buddy, make sure you both know what you want to do and what to do if something unexpected happens

2. Standard procedure if your get separated from your buddy or buddies.

If these were not covered in your courses, or if your buddy or the DM failed to cover these in your dive plan, it's not the fault of the OW course. Unfortunately, with many DM-led dives, the divers being guided tend to think the dive is exempt from those rules. And while the divers are assuming the DM will take care of everything, the DM might be thinking the divers are responsible for taking care of everything... especially if the DM is relatively inexperienced. If no one talks about these issues pre-dive... <<sigh>>

Your DM seems to have been fairly... green. Grabbing another diver's dump valve is nearly always worse than instructing the diver to pull it themselves (because that's how they learn to solve their own problem.) Declining to allow you to weight check near the boat, and believing that he had everything covered for extra weights... a rookie mistake. He's created a problem for himself (although he left you to deal with it), which (hopefully) he will learn from.

All these things WERE covered in training, which is why we were confused that the DM and the highly experienced bloke DIDNT COMPLY. My issue is in no way with the training or the instructors we had for our OW and AOW. They were awesome and thorough. But, as has already been stated, the training is not enough to cement these things in your brain. Maybe there needs to be a different standard, or dive, or group, for divers with <10 dives? Certainly not sending 3 inexperienced divers with a seemingly inexperienced DM (we came to the same conclusion as you on that matter)

FWIW, completely testing your BCD pre-dive is just as important as testing your regulator. My procedure for testing my BCD: when I first assemble gear, I fully inflate my BCD until the overflow valve pops, and I wait for it to close; then I release a small amount of air from each of the valves (I have four: inflator button, inflator shoulder, right shoulder dump, rear dump) and when I've done this my BCD is still half inflated; I reinflate it completely and let it sit for at least 10 minutes, to ensure nothing is leaking; then I completely deflate and check it 10 minutes later... make sure it's still deflated.

This procedure tests several things:

1. Inflator is working properly.
2. Dump valves all operate properly... open when I want them open, and then close properly afterward.
3. No leaks from the valves or otherwise.
4. BCD is not "self inflating"... i.e. no air is leaking from the inflator into the BCD.

I've seen people "test" their BCD by fully inflating it and then dumping all the air through the inflator hose. Not only does this fail to test the remaining valves, but if the BCD is fully deflated during testing there is no way to be sure the valves close properly after they are opened.

I think this is going to be my new procedure(it's probably what I was taught, but who remembers that stuff)

 

[YZed426]

If you want to climb on the boat with your fins, I find that it works better with the ladder where there is only a single vertical bar in the middle of the ladder.

I definitely lack the required coordination to perform that intricate maneuver.

 

[Storker]

If you want to climb on the boat with your fins, I find that it works better with the ladder where there is only a single vertical bar in the middle of the ladder.

In my waters, every dive boat I've ever been on uses the "Christmas tree" style ladder. Because that's the only design which properly allows for climbing while wearing your fins. I've even had one made for my private boat, which definitely isn't a dedicated diving boat. It just sucked big time to climb that puny bathing ladder which was on the boat when I bought it, even after doffing the fins and handing them up to the boat tender.

And if you do a quick Google image search for "dive ladder", that's the style you'll be seeing in all the top hits. At least that's what I'm seeing.

I definitely lack the required coordination to perform that intricate maneuver.

It's a lot easier to climb in full gear than a traditional ladder is, IJS. Even if you doff your fins. IMO it's easier to climb a Christmas tree style ladder while wearing my fins than to climb a traditional ladder after doffing them.