Took the plunge!

[limeyx]

Unless he's cave diving there really isn't a need for steel tanks. AL80s fit the bill quite nicely. He can have a set of banded & manifolded AL80s for the cost of just 2 PST tanks.

The good reason to go with the steel in cold water is that it lets you drop some weight from your belt. Given the amount of lead needed to sink a d/suit and thick underwear, that can be a big help on trim etc. Obviously you still need a balanced rig.

I'm not sure what steel/AL differences inherently have to do with cave diving -- plenty of people dive AL doubles in caves.

 

[Derek S]

The good reason to go with the steel in cold water is that it lets you drop some weight from your belt. Given the amount of lead needed to sink a d/suit and thick underwear, that can be a big help on trim etc. Obviously you still need a balanced rig.

I'm not sure what steel/AL differences inherently have to do with cave diving -- plenty of people dive AL doubles in caves.

Limey - Look at my location. I know cold water diving.

I'm saying singles - yes steel (although, AL with a weighted STA would work as well). For doubles, there really isn't a huge need for steel doubles in OW ocean or shore diving IMHO.

My SAC rate sucks, so instead of moving to big honkin' steel doubles, I've purchased some AL80 doubles and am hitting the bike/gym. Problem solved.

 

[Meng_Tze]

I think we are all talking in the same direction......

Each tank (or combination thereof) has its place. Each tank has its form factor, weight and buoyancy characteristics. Based on what/where you are going to use them, you make a decision on what to use. Sometimes AL80's, sometimes steels.

If I would do deep/long deco dives, I would probably pick steels. In caves I would decide between steels and AL's depending on gas need, passages, location etc. No room for a stage combined with AL80's: steels. Deep penetration (more gas needed) AL80's and stage or steels. Long hike to hole in the ground: AL80's. Deep penetration with lots of room: Steels plus stages. OW dive (not too deep): AL80's.

All of this is also dependent/forces changes on what kind of exposure suit I wear.

The main benefit, to me, of steels is more gas in tanks. Downfall is heavy as a mofo and hurt hiking them a long walk. Is a shallow dive worth the pain and hassle? Not to me. 20 pounds difference in weight becomes painfully obvious if you haul them for 1/2 mile in 82degrees..... On the other hand, If I am going to be in the water for a long time (or do several dives on one set), I may carry the burden for that with steels...

In my opinion you can never go wrong with a set of AL80's to start of with. you can break them up into stages and they are perfect for getitng into doubles.

my 2BAR

 

[TSandM]

One: You don't have to have a light for Fundies. People told me that and they were right. I didn't use mine, even though I had it, because I didn't want to add more task-loading to what was already challenging. It may have been the right decision, but there were some downsides. The long hose is definitely easier to manage with a light -- I stuffed mine in my waistband, and it kept coming out. In addition, the light gives you the ability to communicate with your buddies EVEN IF THEY AREN'T LOOKING AT YOU AND AREN'T WHERE YOU CAN TOUCH THEM, and in Fundies, that can be really, really important. My light would have helped me a lot on the second day in that way.

In fact, a light is so useful for diving in our area that I had bought one long before I even thought about taking Fundies, just because Bob had shown me how he used his.

Owning tanks cuts the costs of diving roughly in half after a while, but renting tanks isn't difficult or prohibitively expensive, and I did it for quite a while. What's important for Fundies is a balanced rig, so you have to have used a type of tank enough to have fine-tuned how much weight you need and where to put it so that you can hover in horizontal trim without having to fin or otherwise move to keep stable. Out of trim makes buoyancy hard and sets you up for big problems with skills -- BTDT (my weight belt slipped on Sunday and I just could not keep my feet from dropping).

So I think my personal advice would be to get a light, dive with it enough to be comfortable using it, and use it in the class. Get the tanks later. YMMV

 

[aquaoren]

Unless you'll spend every second until your DIR-F in the water with your new light, you'll not get comfortable enough with it to have it under complete control when performing skills.
I'd recommend not taking the light into the water during class. It's unneccessary task loading that will interfere with the rest of the skills and will have no added benefit for the class. You'll have more than enough time to get used to the light after DIR-F.
If you'll try to control too many new variables, you'll end up having nothing at all under control.

 

[Ben_ca]

If you'll try to control too many new variables, you'll end up having nothing at all under control.

...and have it all on video for all to enjoy

 

[MHK]

Unless you'll spend every second until your DIR-F in the water with your new light, you'll not get comfortable enough with it to have it under complete control when performing skills.
I'd recommend not taking the light into the water during class. It's unneccessary task loading that will interfere with the rest of the skills and will have no added benefit for the class. You'll have more than enough time to get used to the light after DIR-F.
If you'll try to control too many new variables, you'll end up having nothing at all under control.

Oren,

With all due respect, I think this is that last thing that a diver should do. I'll tell my students all the time that if they have a light they should use it. The purpose of the class is to learn the fundamental concepts of diving with the equipment you will be diving with on a regular basis. I also tell my students all the time that they shouldn't concentrate on "passing" the class inasmuch as they should focus their efforts on what the underlying purpose of the class, which is to learn the "fundamentals", hence the name of the class.

It doesn't make any sense to me to take a class to learn the fundamentals, but then omit a pretty important piece of equipment. We teach a significant amount regarding passive light communication, which greatly enhances team diving. As such, the light becomes an integral part of the equation so, in my mind, it makes more sense to learn how to deal with it under controlled conditions such as the supervision of the instructor. And lastly, I would say that often times students have difficulty with the long hose and the light cord getting twisted. By watching those mistakes on the video tape debrief it makes it much easier to resolve and makes it much easier to prevent it from happening in the future.

I appreciate that it's a different mindset about going into a class not worrying about passing it, but what I like to tell my students is the important part of the class is the information and the skill sets, not the c-card at the end.

Hope that helps.

 

[Meng_Tze]

Hmm, if the light and handling of the cord/hose is THAT crucial in fundies, then surely it should be a mandatory piece of equipment for the fundies course?

 

[Rick Inman]

I used my can light during the class. I wasn't planning on it but the instructor said that since I have it I may as well learn with it. Definitely added to the task loading. I think in our class half the people used can lights, half didn't. It definitely wasn't a need to have for the class.

I didn't use mine, even though I had it, because I didn't want to add more task-loading to what was already challenging.

I was in this class with these two fine divers. I took my can light and was glad I did.

I didn't take the class to make it easy or "pass" it. I took the class to get the skills I'd need while doing actual dives - which includes my light. Yes, the task loading was more difficult, but I wanted to learn the skills with my light, not without and then have to re-learn or add skills later (I still have enough re-learning to do:11: ).

I would buy the light before the tanks (making sure you get the "right" light, of course). My light is one of the best purchases I've ever made.

And they have tons of tanks you can rent at 5th D.

Just my .02.

 

[piikki]

Hmm, if the light and handling of the cord/hose is THAT crucial in fundies, then surely it should be a mandatory piece of equipment for the fundies course?

If I understood the explanation right, using the light during the course was recommended if the light was owned and thus assumed to be fundamental part of that owner’s anticipated diving (future) – not so much that it was fundamental part of Fundies course per se. Diving conditions differ, maybe canister light is not fundamental for every diver (at least not at the point they attend Fundies).

Moreso, SHUSH, or it will become impossible for many to get into GUE training system early on without going through the anticipated OW (might not be so bad idea if it just was viable) because DIR-F equipment requirements will include compulsory drysuit, can light, doubles etc which many at the entry level just do not possess. I’d hope I could learn and practice the basics while obtaining the material stuff on the side, hopefully able to apply knowledge bit by bit as I go too.