Today I almost suffocated, on the land. Underwater I would have died

[h90]

i had big problems today...the same underwater would have killed me

Story:
My wife ate and I took from her food one bite of chicken with "sticky rice". Didn't bite it well and swallow it.
Result (not a doctors opinion, I write how it felt like and what I think): I got a kind of cramp in the larynx. Result: No air, complete closed. I tried to drink something, but that didn't work as well.

After far more than a minute I could get a bit air, but not enough...
Later I could get more but not really enough. Vomit several times, had twice problem with blood pressure. (Cribeling feeling in the hands, not 100 % control of it).
After a while it changed with say 5 min relative OK, than starting again, getting not enough air, vomiting feeling better again.

went to the hospital (Thailand) they were clueless, X-Ray me and found that there is nothing and told me to wait 2 hours for the specialist. Told my staff to drive me home (10 min 2 times vomit).
Try to feel whats wrong, it felt like that tube (don't know the english name) to the stomach is cramping.
At home again (2.30 hours after it started) I took a glas of Orange juice, drank it, immediatly didn't get any air again, than like switch in another mode, everything was fine....

The same situation at 40 meter would be letal I guess.
Anyone know what that might be? How to avoid it, how to treat it under or above water? At the hospital some O2 would have been nice when I don't get almost no air. But couldn't speak well.

Any ideas?

 

[RasRitz]

could it of been a food allergy???

 

[h90]

could it of been a food allergy???

No I am not allergy against anything beside bees (and there were no).
Nothing swollen, the same feeling like you have a cramp in your leg, just another muskels.
I think many people have something simillar if the swallow something big and dry and need a glas of water. Just that was much worse and did not end, even there was nothing there.
Might be possible that a piece of rice stay somewhere there and made the system crazy???

 

[fisherdvm]

I think I'd agree with the doctors, laryngospasm of some sort. But you wonder if there is an esophageal problem as well, which would not show up on xray. So the question is, did you have problem swallowing, then the food get into the larynx. Or is it a laryngeal problem, that caused the spasm.

I would start by seeing an ear nose and throat specialist, for a laryngeal scopy. Simple in the office procedure. If all is well, then see a gastroenterologist to make sure that you don't have an esophageal problem.

If all they did was xray, it might not show up laryngeal problems. Inflammation of the esophagus can also cause changes that might not show up on xray.

 

[Cajuncru Diver]

Try not eating anything while under water and that might help solve the problem.

 

[h90]

I think I'd agree with the doctors, laryngospasm of some sort.
I think so, but it was not the doctors idea. Now looking back, it looked like the doctor ran away so he is not wrong in any way (lousy Thai hospital and doctor looked like 25 years old).

But you wonder if there is an esophageal problem as well, which would not show up on xray. So the question is, did you have problem swallowing, then the food get into the larynx. Or is it a laryngeal problem, that caused the spasm.

I would start by seeing an ear nose and throat specialist, for a laryngeal scopy. Simple in the office procedure. If all is well, then see a gastroenterologist to make sure that you don't have an esophageal problem.

If all they did was xray, it might not show up laryngeal problems. Inflammation of the esophagus can also cause changes that might not show up on xray.

I have lets say once a year, that I try to swallow a bit piece of something. I know pretty silly, maybe "normal" people don't do that. Getting no air for a few second, taking a glas of something, swallow it down with power and all is good.

Wikipedia is telling:
Laryngospasm in the operating room is treated by hyperextending the patient's neck and administering assisted ventilation with 100% oxygen. In more serious cases it may require the administration of an intravenous muscle relaxant and reintubation.
In ear, nose and throat practices, it is treated by examining the patient in the office and reassuring the patient that laryngospasm resolves. Sometimes reflux medication is used to reduce the acidity in the stomach.

Any ideas?

 

[h90]

Try not eating anything while under water and that might help solve the problem.

I guess the same can happen if the exhaust valve fails and you get salt water and try to swallow it down automatic.

But would be interesting, taking for example a chocolate under water and eat it. will try that in the pool.

 

[Web Monkey]

I guess the same can happen if the exhaust valve fails and you get salt water and try to swallow it down automatic.

But would be interesting, taking for example a chocolate under water and eat it. will try that in the pool.

Especially considering your problem, I'd suggest not eating underwater.

Terry

 

[DandyDon]

Try not eating anything while under water and that might help solve the problem.

:dunce: Duh, I think right.

I have lets say once a year, that I try to swallow a bit piece of something. I know pretty silly, maybe "normal" people don't do that. Getting no air for a few second, taking a glas of something, swallow it down with power and all is good.

Wikipedia is telling:
Laryngospasm in the operating room is treated by hyperextending the patient's neck and administering assisted ventilation with 100% oxygen. In more serious cases it may require the administration of an intravenous muscle relaxant and reintubation.
In ear, nose and throat practices, it is treated by examining the patient in the office and reassuring the patient that laryngospasm resolves. Sometimes reflux medication is used to reduce the acidity in the stomach.

Any ideas?

Forcing more of anything on top of a chocking blockage does not sound like such a good idea. Follow the suggestions about seeing the ENT...!

I guess the same can happen if the exhaust valve fails and you get salt water and try to swallow it down automatic.

But would be interesting, taking for example a chocolate under water and eat it. will try that in the pool.

Don't, please.

Especially considering your problem, I'd suggest not eating underwater.

Terry

:silly: Agreed

Here is a Mayo clinic article http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/laryngospasm/AN01215 I have rarely experienced that and I do use OTC meds for GERD diving to be on the safer side. It clears up after less than a minute tho.

 

[doctormike]

Hi...

Glad that you are OK now..!

Here is some background.

The main purpose of the larynx is, as you may be surprised to learn, not speech! The larynx (the vocal cords, to be more specific), is a structure that keeps us from choking on food and other liquids (such as saliva, etc..).

Evolutionarily speaking, the larynx developed to allow us to have the food and air passages share a single common space in the back of the throat (the pharynx). Most mammals have this configuration. Food from the mouth, and air from the nose and mouth both pass through the pharynx before being directed into the food passage (the esophagus) or the airway ( the trachea) respectively.

Whales and dolphins don't have this problem, even though they are mammals. The air passage is routed out through the top of the head (the blowhole), although they need another mechanism (the sphincter) to keep from drowning. People who have had their larynx removed because of cancer are in a similar situation, with the trachea routed out of the skin of the neck (a tracheostomy) and being completely sepertated from the food passage.

Swallowing is a fairly complex series of maneuvers that involves the larynx elevating, the esophagus (the food tube) opening, and the vocal cords closing together. Sometimes it doesn't work as well as it should, and you can aspirate (food or liquids going through the larynx into the lungs). We all have experienced this when something "goes down the wrong pipe". This results if food or liquid in the airway (the trachea), causing our next line of defense to kick in - a powerful cough - which usually propels whatever you have aspirated out of the lungs. However, sometimes this backup mechanism fails too. That is when I have to get up in the middle of the night and fish a piece of a toy or a peanut out of some kid's trachea...

In some cases, the vocal cord protection doesn't work well. This can happen after a stroke, when the sensation of the larynx is diminished, or the motion of the vocal cords are impaired. Some stroke patients can't eat without aspirating, or in lesser cases, can't drink think liquids (which are more easily aspirated than thick stuff).

In other cases, the vocal cord protective mechanism works "too well", or rather lasts too long. This is laryngospasm, which is what it sounds like the OP had. Laryngospasm almost always is self limited, since even if it lasted long enough for you to lose consciousness, once you were unconscious (and presumably not diving!), the larynx would open again. Nevertheless, there are reports of people who had emergency tracheotomies for laryngospasm. A variant of this - spasmodic croup - can be similar to this, and even though there is no actual physical problem with the larynx, the patient can feel like they are suffocating. The maneuvers to break laryngospasm described in Wikipedia really apply more to patients undergoing surgery, who often go into laryngospasm as they emerge from the deeper stages of anesthesia.

An ENT exam (flexible fiberoptic examination of the larynx in the office) is usually recommended in these situations, although there usually isn't much to see. It would be important to find out if a foreign body (piece of chicken, etc..) was actually aspirated, since this can cause serious problems if not removed. It can be hard to make this diagnosis without bronchoscopy (examination of the trachea and lower airway under anesthesia), x-rays can miss the signs of a foreign body.

Good luck! Sorry, I don't know any ENT docs in Thailand...