To touch or not to touch?

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So without any evidence one way or the other, all we have is gut instinct, and any discussions we have about it is just one person's unsubstantiated opinion against another's.

Tom

Well, my opinion is certainly worthless as I am just layperson, but I do think there is enough data out there for a scientist to make more than just a guess. we know alot about behavior now, feeding habits and diet, etc. In addition I think 10+ years of activity is enough to at least start to see a pattern, or lack of one, which IMHO is the same thing as evidence against.

One of my favorite sayings: just because we don't know everything, doesn't mean we don't know anything.

But again, that is just my layman's opinion...
 
@ Rickg:

Actually, the photos were good but not stunning in my opinion. There was a very short thread here about that earlier and I was surprised by the lack of response. Just because a pro photographer does a shoot like that one doesn't make it right but some people over on WP were hesitant to judge because of his stature.
 
@ Rickg:

Actually, the photos were good but not stunning in my opinion. There was a very short thread here about that earlier and I was surprised by the lack of response. Just because a pro photographer does a shoot like that one doesn't make it right but some people over on WP were hesitant to judge because of his stature.

I didn't see it until I was mired in this thread, or I would have said much the same as I did here.

As for stature, well, if your lifes work is dedicated towards education and conservation I may well give you a pass. If OTOH you are just trying to sell pictures, you are no different or better than anyone else in my eyes. If you are wrong you are wrong no matter who you are...
 
So without any evidence one way or the other, all we have is gut instinct, and any discussions we have about it is just one person's unsubstantiated opinion against another's.

Tom

Did someone recently claim they were stating fact about the subject? I think we're all aware these are all opinions.

10 years may not even be enough. When you consider how long evolution has taken and is on-going, it might be many, many more years. Then again, there may be no change whatsoever.
 
This is interesting. This thread was posted today...

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/wr...ew-wrecks-we-need-help-s-35-sites-so-far.html

I went to the website, NCR HOME and I saw them basically tearing apart reefs. On the "live" TV feed they showed a search grid made of PVC pipe laying on top of staghorn coral, which they were going to destroy to check for artifacts.

This is obviously far more damaging to the reef system there than a simple touch so I posted that it seemed like they were sure tearing up the reefs. The guy was not happy about what I had posted and said that he had a PHD, bla bla bla. What does everyone think about archeology at the expense of reef systems? We're talking reef demolition here and their "territory" is 100 miles of reef!
 
How would you like it if you were walking down the street and someone just walked up to you and started touching you...even gently poking and prodding?

I don't think you would care for it very much.

Respect.
 
To touch or not to touch nudibranchs is very different from the question of "to touch or not to touch" OTHER critters. If we stick to nudibranchs then the answer is not all black and white. Most nudis can be handled with no harm to the diver or the nudi. For example, a nudi on a sand bottom can be moved slightly to allow a photo if moving it provides easier access so that the camera does not hit or bump something else. The caveat is that the nudi can NOT be placed on anything that hurts it and it must be put back exactly where it is found. Some nudibranchs abhor sponges or coral. The diver assumes a massive responsibility to know what he is doing and some divers are not capable of such fine control of their motions to grasp it as delicately as a tiger lifts its baby by the neck. Very few nudis can sting, so it is not the diver we need worry about, but the effect of moving the critter. Most divers are wise to simply look and not risk harming the natural array of things underwater. Also, since most nudibranchs move a lot, I have found that if I wait a little they will eventually get in to a nicer pose on their own. A slight tap in front of them can turn them if they are moving rapidly away from their preferred location. The answer, of course, is do only what you know to be safe, and avoid all else!
 
Here in Hawai'i we are big on not touching the turtles. However, some of our turtles have come to trust divers, and come very close to the divers. I have had to hold one back from my camera, a number of times, because it was too close. I have had them rub along my body, turn around, and do it again. The third time with that one and I got back on the boat. Once, while watching 5 of them off Waikiki, I found my self trapped just above the reef by another one who slipped up and over my right shoulder. Just curious.
 
With nothing but the up most respect Ms. Church I think your post points out the problem here, the start of the slippery slope. What photo is worth handling the creature? Even a nudibrach. If someone sees Cathy Church do it than it must be ok for them to do it. We see divers who THINK they have great buoyancy as they kick and thrash the reef. The same applies to people who THINK they know what is ok for a creature. As I have said many times, no marine biologist I have met has said touching or moving any nudibrach is a stress free experience for the creature. If they curl up or try to wiggle off it is because contact has pushed them into flight mode.

In this day and age where most admit the seas and its creatures are at risk, even the humble nudibrach, I ask again why handle them to get a better photo?
 

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