To those considering an OW class...

[Storm]

Seems a fair assessment to me


I agree that this is wrong headed thinking. It's far better, IMO, to teach skills that lessen the probability of panic UW.

Essentially I agree with most of the rest of your comments although I'm not really clear what is meant by lengthening the courses. The OW course is only six sessions which are 2 hours of classroom and 2 hours of confined water time each followed by the typical 5 or 6 OW cert dives. Basically covers three weeks on the calendar. Totals about 24 to 27 hours of training not including the OW dives. Doesn't seem unrealistically long to me nor do I feel like there is insufficient time to accomplish what I want with my students.

jdb,

Sorry for the late reply.

I cannot comment on NAUI, I was PADI training and there were only 6 class session about 1 1/2 hours followed byt 1 to 11/2 hours of pool time then 4 OW cert dives.

From the lenght and time you mentioned, and the extra OW dives you mentione could be enough time to work on a few more fundamental skills, like buoyancy, buddy breathing etc. I guess one of the difficulties in discussing things like this is the fact that the standards are so broad in nature they allow different agnecies/and perhaps even different DIs within the same agency to create programs that vary a bit in lenght, and and perfromance expectations.

Not slamming any oine agency here, just observing from the discussion the various differences in the sibject matter being covered by different DIs and different agencies.
For the most part the core curriculum is set, but from talking to the various DIs that I have to date, there are some who take it a liitle bit farther than just the core curriculum, and some who kust barley hit the baseline material.

Persoanlly I would have rather, and would have gladly paid for, a longer course that also delved into in-water proficency in regards to trm, proper weighting, and buoyancy control, but I also understand that there are those that just want to hit it go forth.
We were taught buddy breathing in out confined water sessions, and my wife and I still practice this skill, but this probably has more to do with the fact that we had a very dive early in our diving history and it kind of set the bells to ringing..so to speak.

I understand that this is a sport where one must continually strive to develop skills and in water performance and that the OW course, out of current. marketing trends, and necessities, will not cover all of these subjects. My personal expectatoins were not entirely met by the course I was on, and taking more courses to cover what I felt was just basic in water perfromance requirements sort of stuck in my craw a bit.

I did not mean to imply that your particular courses need to be lenghtened. merely making a gereralization.

Peace.

 

[jbd]

Storm,
It sounds like the class you took is fairly similar to what I teach in length, which I think is normal. While the course I teach is a bit longer and involves a few more OW cert dives I think one of the biggest differences for me is class size when it comes to covering a lot of material and developing skills. My maximum is 4 students for the OW course and I really don't like doing that many. I'm much happier with two, because I feel I can give two people far more personal attention and make them more proficient with diving skills. I think this is true of most independent instructors. On the other side of this are courses taught by dive shops in which it's in their best interest to teach no less than 4 per class and preferably 8 to 10 per class. Its a simple matter of economics. They do the best they can with the situation they are in. Also when working with 8 to 10 or even 12 people it becomes difficult to give people much personal attention. This problem is greatly magnified if one then tries to cram the entire program into one weekend and still have a class size of 8 or more. Something has to give and in the end the over all quality suffers.

I am definitely glad to her that you and your wife are practicing skills epsecially the ones that don't get used often when diving. Keep up the good work.

 

[jbd]

Your point about the skill suite is very well taken. One of the joys of being part of a scientific diving program is the complete interchangeability of buddies within the program and the very similar skill suite of divers from other institutions.

If I might comment on buddy breathing, computers, DIR and diving instruction: Buddy breathing is an excellent case study in what happened to diver training. Auxiliary regulators did not become widespread until the late 1970s (they existed, but if memory serves they were not “required” for students by all the major agencies until the mid 1980s). Buddy breathing had been taught, as a matter of course, and was practiced during each pool and open water session. Divers were taught a rather rigid and standardized methodology that worked well, even with buddies who did not know each other and divers were taught to discuss buddy breathing prior to every dive and to actually do it (as practice) at the start of every dive. Many instructors and divers viewed auxiliaries as a solution in search of a problem seeing them as just another scam to benefit the manufacturers and shops.

There were a few, rather horrific, double fatalities that were thought to have involved buddy breathing failures. These incidents were the raison d'etre for the addition of auxiliary use to the standards of all the agencies. Because of the “common sense” conclusion that auxiliary use does not require as much training as buddy breathing, with only a sham of study or debate, the amount of training required was reduced soon thereafter. I was intimately familiar with what went on. It remains my view that auxiliaries were used as an excuse to slash hours (which was a forgone conclusion going into the discussion). There was not real examination of what I felt to be the base issue, “how many hours are needed to produce a diver?”

The push to substutute auxiliary use and then reduce the minimum hours in an entry-level course from 40 hours with five dives to as little as 18 with two dives succeeded, though many instructors arguing that buddy breathing was an important confidence building and equipment manipulation skill that should be kept, even when divers are equipped with auxiliaries.

The lack of standardization both in design and use of auxiliaries was soft-pedaled. At this stage there were Octos that could come off left or right, up or down, and that may or may not be in a pocket. Not to mention integrations with BC inflators, pony bottles with many different mounting systems, spare-airs, etc. The best the industry could come up with was the “golden triangle” approach. So we took something that was well taught and rigidly standardized and replaced it with a additional piece of equipment that, two decades later, we are still arguing about how to use.

It was at this point (mid-1980s) that science programs started requiring auxiliaries and, given the number of combinations and permutations, took the approach of surrendering the primary and making each diver individual responsible for their own auxiliary choice. This is, to me, something so sensible that I simply cannot understand why it is not an industry standard.

Despite warnings that this would happen in the late 1980s, much the same occured with respect to dive computers. This reduced what should be a valuable tool for a knowledgeable diver, to an additional sale that was, at the same time, another excuse to reduce the amount of required training.

Quality instructors resisted (and continue to resist) these reductions. Auxiliaries were incorporated into courses without reducing hours and computers were embraced without gutting the decompression lectures and instructions in table use. But, by and large, the training agencies pushed (and continue to push) diver education in the direction of substituting equipment sales for training time and equipment dependence for skill development.

I find some details in the DIR regime a bit strange and, in my experience, some of their base premises to be confused. But that’s not the point, the standardization of rig and procedures produces a true “insta-buddy” team that works … the details that give me pause are, as far as I can see, overshadowed by what can be gained.

Very interesting and thought provoking post. I especially like the comment about, "two decades later, we are still arguing about how to use it". Thanks for an interesting read.

 

[LavaSurfer]

The OW course I'm taking is 3 days long. 7 hours pool and 10 hour classroom. I hope it's long enough.

Seems short to me.
I help out in a three day course once a month
the students start class at 8AM and hit the pool at 4PM out of the pool at 11PM
Three days in a row. or split in two weekends
Most are fairly competent after three days but a few are iffy.
Those that are questionable are told to do extra time till we feel comfortable.

Thats 21 Hours in the pool and 24 in the Class
deduct a few hours for lunch (no dinner) and preparation at poolside

If your worried, make sure you let the instructor know you want more pool time. he should respect that wish.

 

[langs15]

I think it that they should stop the resort classes, it's useless IMO, they really do'nt care if you get it or not, they just want the money, that's just what I think.

 

[jbichsel]

The no mask swim and mask replacement is a required skill set for PADI. Maintaining neutral buoyancy while donning your mask is not. Kudos to your instructors for including that. Buddy breathing is optional. I don't see much value in it. Most divers dive with an alternate regulator. So why should anyone have to share one regulator?

Keyword being "most". Not all divers dive with an alternate. I often see divers with a single second stage. Not wise IMHO, but it happens.

A couple of years ago, we were in Oahu and I did a couple of dives with groups of Japanese that spoke no English, I was the only English speaking divier other than our guide, who was fluent in both Japanese and English. Three of the nine Japanese divers had single second stages. Most of the nine had no more than 50 dives, but every one of them had exemplary buoyancy control. Even the couple that only had 20 dives, had superb buoyancy and trim. Whoever their instructor(s), they did a great job.

 

[ChrisEdwards]

Finsihed my first classroom session tonight for my OW cert. The instructor must have mentioned that you will have bouyancy control by the end of the course at least 5 times during tonights classroom session.

Thought some of you might like to hear that.

 

[CJ Waid]

I say certify them all and let God sort them out!

 

[tee_jay]

My course went for 2 days. First day in the classroom/pool, second day with a little bit of classroom and then out to some reefs for some diving. I originally thought that this would be a bit short, but once I actually started in the pool and went out for a dive I felt confident with my abilities. I guess I just managed to pick up some basic skills early, like on my 'Discover Scuba' dive I was playing around with my bouyancy and got the concept. Having said that, another day or 2 wouldn't have hurt. I feel confident enough to go diving again, but if I had've had another couple of days I could have been in some new situations and had more time to talk to the instructors and refine my technique.
My biggest problem at the moment is I haven't been diving in awhile, so I've lost alot of knowledge of how to set up all the equipment, so I'll do a quick refresher course before I do anything else.

Also, something that would have been nice is if the diveshop had of given me a book with some of the basics in it. I know they're not required too, but it would be good to have just so that if I wanted to refresh my memory I could skim through it and reread some of the stuff I have done.

 

[TheRedHead]

tee jay, you can buy OW texts for all the agencies on the net. If you can't remember how to set up your equipment, you need at least a refresher, if not taking the entire course again. I have never heard of teaching OW without the student having the book. Did you get a certification card? Your class sounds terrible.