To Replace...or Not...Canon G10

[kalare]

Hi,

I've been using a G10 in a canon housing only for the past 4-5 years or so, and am thinking about upgrading. Just this past June spent some time in the Keys, and I missed several shots due to the 2.5 second delay between shots. I've also missed several shots due to lack of light, and am thinking of adding a compact strobe to the mix. In addition to the above two issues, I have also wanted to get more wide angle shots, as my over/under are always lacking due to relatively narrow angle of view, and all my photos of turtles and other large animals have no background with the animal taking up almost the whole frame! It seems I'm missing/wanting a lot.

I initially considered trying to find a wide angle/dome for the G10 setup I currently have, and find that there isn't anything available, so now I'm considering the upgrade path...oh my poor wallet.

With that said, 80% of my shots are snorkeling. I have done some photography on dives, but due to my current lack of strobe, those never turn out well. On top of that, while snorkeling, I'm usually chauffeuring my wife around the reef as well, so I don't have the ability to carry a large kit or have to deal with crazy menus.

So, I initially narrowed it down to S120, G16, RX100 (i or ii) or LX7. I'm leaning towards S120/G16 due to my familiarity with the menus and me knowing I can deal with them while snorkeling with my wife. RX100 seems like it may not be that user friendly in my situation. LX7 is tempting due to it's ability to take wide angle and macro lenses (should I chose to go this route) and having a hot shoe if I want wired TTL in the future. Price is also a factor, and both the S120 and G16 seem to offer the lowest price with camera and case, and best bang for buck. While I could potentially obtain an LX7 for the lowest price, all LX7 cases are $550 and above and the $550 Ikelite case is quite large for packing in suitcases.

So, I want the relatively impossible it seems. Any recommendations for something that doesn't need diopters for decent close up shots, but my be easily added in the future should I desire? I'm also thinking a fisheye lens would do me well, as opposed to rectilinear wide-angle, however I've no experience with either so I'm not sure.

So, S120 with a FIX or Inon wide-angle/fisheye (more $$ for lens) or G16 with fantasea case and Bigeye (cheap, and I realize this is not true wide angle, but perhaps it would suffice for what I want?)

Thanks in advance, and here's a couple of shots from my G10 in the meantime, not the greatest, but they suit me.

 

[jhelmuth]

I think TTL is over-rated, so maybe consider letting that not carry too much weight in your decision. Too many excellent digital capable strobes out there (like the Inon S2000 or the Sea&Sea YS-01).

All your other choices are good. You are giving/getting (trade-offs) something with each one. In the end, I'd go with the one which has the largest sensor that I can afford. There is a lot to be said for small packages too (given airlines restrictions on luggage and ability to put everything in one case as a carry on). At the end of the day, the ultimate is a full frame rig - but that is not a consideration. But my point is that everything else is a compromise. Maybe make a prioritized list of what is really important to you and then match up each choice to that list. Maybe one will pop-out at ya?

I've never shot one, but I'm impressed with what I've seen from the Sony RX100 (in the Recsea housing). Seems to be a lot of camera (big sensor) in a smallish package.

 

[fbk]

I think you have summed up your options pretty well. RX100 will break the bank. I have an LX7 and the one thing I will say is that although it seems hard to swallow for a compact camera the $1000 Nauticam housing is worth every cent. It is by far the nicest and most ergonomic housing I've ever used with pretty much everything at your fingertips so you won't be digging through menus. The cameras are only $300 which takes some of the sting out of the housing investment and some of the worry out of flooding, plus the housing has a flood alarm. The Ikelite housing is rubbish in comparison. The LX7 does very well in ambient light due to the fast 1.4 lens and adding a $250 wetmate dome will get you superb wide angle and outstanding video even without lights especially snorkelling. Optical TTL will work perfectly for your strobe. Close up is decent out of the box but you can add an UCL165 macro lens for $150 or two of them if you want to do supermacro.

 

[kalare]

Thanks to you both. I suppose what I'd really love is a camera/housing/wetmate combo that would allow me to keep the wide angle or fisheye lens on, and still have close up/semi-macro ability. Any thoughts on that or is this a pipe dream?

 

[jhelmuth]

Thanks to you both. I suppose what I'd really love is a camera/housing/wetmate combo that would allow me to keep the wide angle or fisheye lens on, and still have close up/semi-macro ability. Any thoughts on that or is this a pipe dream?

Wouldn't we ALL?

In my limited experience, wet-lens combinations would be your best bet (at achieving what I understand your goals to be). A decent zoom lens with a range in the 28mm to 80mm (using 35mm format equivalency) behind a flat port with interchangeable wet lens (converters - really good ones anyway) could scratch that itch. I don't think we'd be fooling anyone to say this is the "best" way to go, but then you are having to compromise those goals (interoperability across wide/normal/macro) in return for a brighter sharper (technically) lens. Everything is a compromise... (which $$$ can certainly help to close the gap on!)

Pipe dream? Maybe.... depends on how and what you are willing to compromise.

 

[KeithG]

I suggest you step back and make a list of the types of shots you want to be able to make. Then decide what you have to do to your current rig to get there. Then determine if there is a cheaper route. Although sexy, swapping cameras is not always the best first step. Unless you have identified some fatal limitation in your camera.

Underwater photography is a journey, not a destination.

You mentioned the following issues:
- 2.5 second delay (what is the cause for this?)
- lack of ambient light ->strobes!
- wide angle -> lens / camera
- close up -> lens / camera

Maybe do a single step at a time? Since you have a capable, but very basic system, I suggest you stick with your current known camera and add accessories that you can grow with.

Something like adding an advanced (optical and wired sync) strobe (or 2!), tray and arm that you can re-use with your next camera.

There are multiple wet diopters out there that can be re-used on your next compact rig. That could be your next step after you master using strobe(s). But it would be a financial commitment to compact P&S as opposed to DSLRs.

P.S. I was unhappy with my compact rig, stepped back and thought about it a bit. In the end I (cheaply) converted it to manual wired sync and still have not exceeded it's capabilities...

 

[fbk]

The simplest and cheapest solution to that is that you keep the WA (wetmate) on most of the time and take it off if you get too close to focus, to shoot closeup with bare port. You can then take it one step further and put on a closeup lens. I just did a trip shooting video only where I was doing this all the time with 2 lenses, although they are small and light and the swap is do-able it is a bit of pain with threaded lenses so I have just converted my housing to bayonet mount and bought new Inon LD mount lenses which are bigger and heavier (and more expensive). This might be overkill cost-wise for you but somewhere between those 2 options lies the closest thing to your pipe dream.

 

[Ran Mozaik]

I think the G16 with the Fantasea housing will be the best choice in the long run.
It's the best value for money to start with ($850) and your upgrading path should include the BigEye ($250, plenty wide in my opinion), a YS-01 / Inon S2000 ($450-$500) strobe mounted on the cold shoe or a basic flex arm tray and perhaps a macro lens ($235), even though the G16 built in macro capabilities are outstanding.
That being said, you could start off with a strobe for your G10 and then decide whether to upgrade the camera and housing as well. A strobe makes a huge difference. You can read a bit about it here - Why are underwater strobes so damn important?

If your budget allows it, the RX100 series is amazing of course. The S120 is a great option as well. You can pair it with the Ikelite housing and a basic strobe and get some great images.
Check out these samples with the S110 (similar to the S120) with the Ikelite housing and single strobe: Red Sea Macro Canon S110 with Ikelite Housing and +10 SubSee
Also these images taken with G15 and Fantasea housing with single strobe: Canon G15 with Fantasea Housing and SubSee +10
Macro's are with the Subsee +10 which is great.
Perhaps it would help you decide.

Bottom line - a strobe is the most important upgrade in my opinion.

 

[jhelmuth]

....

Bottom line - a strobe is the most important upgrade in my opinion.

I have to agree... good lighting makes even a weak system look good, and a good system look fantastic!

....and your upgrading path should include the BigEye.

I'm not sure I can agree... I've had Fantasea BigEye products, and I would not say they are terrible, bad, or less than good. I just have a hard time justifying their expense given their performance relative to other options. Maybe this particular BigEye would change my mind, but it is essentially a dome port which only gives you back your surface FOV. Don't get me wrong.... that's a good thing, and the BigEye does work, just my opinion that there are better values (and yes - more $) over the BigEye in terms of final performance. Buy-once-cry-once...

 

[diver 85]

The 10 is (still) a very good(?great) camera..........If you add a (good) strobe(s) & a macro AND a WA lens, you might be surprised @ how good of pics you get........

EDIT:...............adding a macro lens is optional, just need a good post place---like Lightroom etc......