To dive, or not to dive...

[Mario S Caner]

Dee, the shop pays for all insurance. In fact the poilicy is set up to be roughly twice that of what you can get through your training agency.

For a class like open water the student gets charged $199 normally, down to $145 or such during sales... the instructor still gets $90/student. They understand that tuition should go to the instructor, the inst in turn is happy and promotes more gear sales which makes the shop happy. Since the student now is hooked on diving and has a bunch of gear, it's pretty easy to sell continuing education which starts the vicious cirlce all over again...

Gear is Pro-dealed, in other words the savings is given to the instructor... there's no cost + anything...

The pool is indoor, and belongs to the shop so there's no hint of a charge, and has poolside air whips & gear lockers so you don't have to stick your gear in the yucky chlorine.

And of course air fills, VIP's and the labor costs on two sets of gear (i.e. regs etc.) per year is free. Oh plus two free hydro's... and some other stuff... but I really shouldn't go on... it's just different where you guys are. I mean this is San Diego, it's not like we're 5 minutes from the beach, can dive year round and have students lining up at the doors or anything

 

[Greg G.]

That's still a sweet deal compared to where I was DM'ing, in the Seattle area. I'm now in southern Florida, maybe I should inquire how DM's are compensated around here. Anybody out there in the WPB area that can shed some light on this? (Please don't post any election jokes! Send them in a private message!) <G>

Originally posted by Mario S Caner
Dee, the shop pays for all insurance. In fact the poilicy is set up to be roughly twice that of what you can get through your training agency.

For a class like open water the student gets charged $145 normally, down to $99 during sales... the instructor still gets $90/student. They understand that tuition should go to the instructor, the inst in turn is happy and promotes more gear sales which makes the shop happy. Since the student now is hooked on diving and has a bunch of gear, it's pretty easy to sell continuing education which starts the vicious cirlce all over again...

Gear is Pro-dealed, in other words the savings is given to the instructor... there's no cost + anything...

The pool is indoor, and belongs to the shop so there's no hint of a charge, and has poolside air whips & gear lockers so you don't have to stick your gear in the yucky chlorine.

And of course air fills, VIP's and the labor costs on two sets of gear (i.e. regs etc.) per year is free. Oh plus two free hydro's... and some other stuff... but I really shouldn't go on... it's just different where you guys are. I mean this is San Diego, it's not like we're 5 minutes from the beach, can dive year round and have students lining up at the doors or anything

 

[SubMariner]

I've been following the thread for a bit and it certainly sounds like DMs are feeling "used and abused". It's true that some stores & Instructors do treat DMs disrespectfully, but I have to tell you that this type of mistreatment is not confined to DMs. these same stores treat INSTRUCTORS in the same shabby way. The only way you can "fight back" is to simply stop being a victim: walk away and & look elsewhere for a more reasonable working relationship. Otherwise, you are perpetuating your own misery.

Sooner or later the store or Instructor will get the message when they call "Divemaster Dave" or "Instructor Donna" and find that these people are always "unavailable".

As for DMs bemoaning the fact that they are "always stuck with the problem child". (1) It doesn't only happen to DMs... it happens to Instructors too. (2) That's your job!

Once you decide to be a DM, you are then a dive professional. And when you are involved in training dives, you are the extra eyes, ears, minds, and hands of the Instructor. IOW, as a "certified assistant" you are a valuable member of a team that trains students.

Part of this training mandate is to be able to work with students until they are able to perform the skill to the required standards. At that point the student is turned back over to the Instructor for evaluation of that skill.

That is why as a DM *your* watermanship skills have to be so high, otherwise how would you be able to judge what is and is not the proper way to perform a skill?

So I guess it's up to you what type of "dive professional" you want to be. If you want to be involved in training you WILL be expected to participate in ALL ASPECTS OF TRAINING, REGARDLESS of whether or not you "feel like babysitting a problem child".

OTOH, if you DON'T want to be involved in that sort of thing, would rather "pick and choose", DON'T GET INVOLVED IN TRAINING. Just do tours, etc. with certified divers.

It's up to you.

~SubMariner~

 

[Dee]

And I agree, part of a DM's job IS helping the student who needs some individual attention. That, I do in fact enjoy. I do not feel as if I'm babysitting at all. One thing that makes me uncomfortable is when the Instructor says,"I can't help this student anymore, see what you can do with them." OK, fine. I work with them, calm some fears, build a little confidence...see the light bulb go off, they got it! Go back to the Instructor and tell him "This student is doing fine and ready to do his skills now." and the Instructor says "If you say they can do them, I don't need to see it." Now, to me, that's wrong. The students skills are supposed to be evaluated to HIS satisfaction, not mine...although I work with them until they can do them flawlessly.

By problem student, I guess what I mean is the ones who have not paid attention in class, have no idea of the basics of physics, don't understand and/or comprehend anything you tell them, and who in my opinion, have absolutely no business advancing to open water. Most of them are there because a parent, boyfriend/girlfriend, or spouse insisted. They have no real desire to learn the skills and are just taking up space and everyones time. But once they are there, they are my problem and I do the best I can with what I'm given to work with. As you say, that's my job...but I don't have to like it that part of it!

Yes, it's up to me. and I've chosen to work with the training of new students...the good and the bad. And yes, I have fought back. That's why I will only work with a select few of the Instructors at our shop.

Dee

 

[Greg G.]

It wasn't so much a personal type of disrespect, on the contrary, the shop owner was always very nice. I just didn't like the working conditions. I was expected to get a business license so I could deduct all my expenses. That makes sense on the surface, but the reality is it's a lot of hassle for nearly nothing because you have to have an income to be able to deduct anything. Also, SSI DM's are prohibited from acting independently of a shop. I did not have the option of picking and choosing my assignments. I had to be either fully involved with all the DM stuff, training included, or not at all. My "real" employer sometimes trys to tell me that I'm a "valuable member of a team" and a "profesional" to get me to feel real good and therefore work harder, but I've been around enough to know that money talks, BS walks. It boiled down to I was shelling out a lot of money and effort for the privilage of working for free and opening myself up to some scary liability.

For those who really enjoy DM'ing and can afford to support it, more power to you, I don't begrudge you, don't let me burst your bubble or discourage you in any way. I'm just saying it's not for me, I voted with my feet.

Originally posted by SubMariner

...It's true that some stores & Instructors do treat DMs disrespectfully, ...The only way you can "fight back" is to simply stop being a victim: walk away and & look elsewhere for a more reasonable working relationship. ...

Once you decide to be a DM, you are then a dive professional. And when you are involved in training dives, you are the extra eyes, ears, minds, and hands of the Instructor. IOW, as a "certified assistant" you are a valuable member of a team that trains students.

So I guess it's up to you what type of "dive professional" you want to be. If you want to be involved in training you WILL be expected to participate in ALL ASPECTS OF TRAINING, REGARDLESS of whether or not you "feel like babysitting a problem child".

OTOH, if you DON'T want to be involved in that sort of thing, would rather "pick and choose", DON'T GET INVOLVED IN TRAINING. Just do tours, etc. with certified divers.

It's up to you.

~SubMariner~

 

[Damsel Fish]

I am a divemaster for two reasons:
1) I love to dive and any excuse to get in the water is fine with me.
2) I love the people that I work with. The instructors that I work with are some of the best friends I've ever had and we have alot of fun together in and out of the water.

It isn't all work and no play. We always try to make it really fun so that the students are distracted from their fears and can relax and enjoy being in the water.

I don't get paid with money. I get paid with friendship and the satisfaction of knowing that I helped someone learn how to dive with as little fear and stress as possible. And maybe that will help them be a better and safer diver.

 

[Dee]

For all the grumbling I do about what I don't get for Divemastering, I wouldn't do it if I didn't love it. The friendships I've made are pricelss and when I see a new divers face when I congratulate them on now being a scuba diver...well, that's all the pay I need, really.

I was lucky to have a mentor when I started diving. I would not be the diver I am today without the encouragement to gain more experience, the opportunity to dive with someone with patience and experience, and the deep friendship developed through the time spent together. So I try to do the same thing for new divers. There's always one or two every year that I mentor along. They get to learn by example, as I did, how to dive safely and given the opportunity to dive as much as they possibly can. I've found that one of the major problems new divers have is having no one to buddy with, especially an experienced diver who will take time to teach them. I hope to bridge that gap. I'm passing on the favor done to me by my mentor so many years ago.

 

[Mario S Caner]

Cat, I know what you're trying to say.. but I'm afraid you missed the point. We're talking about apples and oranges here... There are those whom DM because they started to dive and it just happened to be yet another step to take in something they truly love.

That type of person makes a great DM because they really love working with others and being part of a unique experience for the newbie. Then there are those whom have everything that the first DM we were talking about has,... but doesn't happen to be financially comfortable. Shouldn't that second DM make a living at DM'ing? Shouldn't that person be helped in any way necessary to be part of the instructional l33t (elite)?

My point is that not everyone has the luxury of saying..."I do it for the friendship and personal satisfaction" some DM's have made it a career choice, and therefore need the $'s or they wind up waiting tables

Not everyone can just 'eat cake',
Mario

 

[Greg G.]

Cat -

That's great, I wish I could find a DM slot like that. In fact, the reasons you gave as to why you do it and like it was all I was expecting in the first place. I envy you. I did not by any means go into it expecting to be well compensated. I was only looking for the same thing as you, fun and friends. But sorry to say, my experience with three shops, two different agencies, the reality of what it was really costing me, and some anal instructors left a bad taste in my mouth.

Originally posted by cat diver
I am a divemaster for two reasons: 1) I love to dive and any excuse to get in the water is fine with me. 2) I love the people that I work with. The instructors that I work with are some of the best friends I've ever had and we have alot of fun together in and out of the water. It isn't all work and no play. We always try to make it really fun so that the students are distracted from their fears and can relax and enjoy being in the water. I don't get paid with money. I get paid with friendship and the satisfaction of knowing that I helped someone learn how to dive with as little fear and stress as possible. And maybe that will help them be a better and safer diver.

[Edited by Greg G. on 12-03-2000 at 05:49 AM]

 

[Iguana Don]

Greg,

Maybe you're right, after reading your last post, 3 dive shops and 2 different agencies, maybe you should look somewhere else for "diving friends". Not to throw a rock into the fire, but DMing is'nt for everybody. Certain "people skills" are needed in order to make the best of the situtation. And if a person doesn't have them then it can be a miserable job.

Also I've learned that you have to more or less prove yourself, before the instructor will put his trust in you. Not to say that if I was an instructor I wouldn't do it the same way. Just because a person has a DM card doesn't make him a "Classroom" DM the people skills HAVE to be there.
You migh try out some of the local dive clubs in your area to find what you are looking for.
Hope you find it