wstein
Contributor
Walter:
The nerve of them to not do that.
Titanium
- Thread starter BarryNL
- Start date
Please register or login
Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.
Benefits of registering include
- Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
- A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
- You can make this box go away
The nerve of them to not do that.
LOL...Walter:
To quote from Atomic Aquatic's website...
The only reason titanium is not used more in the diving industry, or any industry for that matter, is because of its cost. Titanium is notoriously difficult to extract from ore, requiring a lengthly, toxic, and energy expensive process. Specifically, titanium sponge is produced by reducing titanium tetrachloride with magnesium in what is known as the "Kroll" process. When a more efficient method is developed for producing titanium, it won't be long before we are all drinking Coke out of titanium cans and laughing about the old days when regulators were made of soft and heavy brass.
As for O2 compatibility, titanium does form an oxide very energetically in the presence of high concentrations of O2, but so do many other metals, some of them explosively. The solution is to apply a surface treatment to the areas of titanium that are exposed to O2. A suitable surface treatment might be an inert PVD (physical vapor depostion) coating, which would shield the base titanium from being exposed to the high O2 atmosphere. I believe Apeks is using such a treatment on their "Tungsten" regulator (silly name IMO, there's no tungsten in the PVD layer at all!). That would make a regulator compatible with any gas, with the weight savings and durability of titanium.
Long story short, the only significant disadvantage of titanium is its cost, and that will eventually disappear, making titanium in the 21st century what steel was in the 20th.
Sadamune
The only reason titanium is not used more in the diving industry, or any industry for that matter, is because of its cost. Titanium is notoriously difficult to extract from ore, requiring a lengthly, toxic, and energy expensive process. Specifically, titanium sponge is produced by reducing titanium tetrachloride with magnesium in what is known as the "Kroll" process. When a more efficient method is developed for producing titanium, it won't be long before we are all drinking Coke out of titanium cans and laughing about the old days when regulators were made of soft and heavy brass.
As for O2 compatibility, titanium does form an oxide very energetically in the presence of high concentrations of O2, but so do many other metals, some of them explosively. The solution is to apply a surface treatment to the areas of titanium that are exposed to O2. A suitable surface treatment might be an inert PVD (physical vapor depostion) coating, which would shield the base titanium from being exposed to the high O2 atmosphere. I believe Apeks is using such a treatment on their "Tungsten" regulator (silly name IMO, there's no tungsten in the PVD layer at all!). That would make a regulator compatible with any gas, with the weight savings and durability of titanium.
Long story short, the only significant disadvantage of titanium is its cost, and that will eventually disappear, making titanium in the 21st century what steel was in the 20th.
Sadamune
SoggyShoes
Registered
Jonnythan,
I believe what Roak was saying is that most things that are advertised as Titanium are really mostly Aluminum with a little titanium, some nickel, and maybe even some magnesium. Thus they are Aluminum alloys. As pure titanium requires an inert environment in order weld or cast, doing this is very expensive and reserved for very specialized and expensive parts. In a prior life I was involved in making some titanium products from military grade pure titanium and it wasnt that the titanium was that expensive but every thing had to be machined from solid stock (lots of waste) and it took forever to machine the stuff.
Soggy
I believe what Roak was saying is that most things that are advertised as Titanium are really mostly Aluminum with a little titanium, some nickel, and maybe even some magnesium. Thus they are Aluminum alloys. As pure titanium requires an inert environment in order weld or cast, doing this is very expensive and reserved for very specialized and expensive parts. In a prior life I was involved in making some titanium products from military grade pure titanium and it wasnt that the titanium was that expensive but every thing had to be machined from solid stock (lots of waste) and it took forever to machine the stuff.
Soggy
I´d love some titanium tanks (there´s an urban legend here that the russians made some for their SF)...
Other than that, I don´t think it´s worth the cost...
For high-corrosive enviroments TI & super duplex steels are the way to go...I personally hate that all my "SS"-gear get a fine layer of rust as soon as I forget to rinse it...
Other than that, I don´t think it´s worth the cost...
For high-corrosive enviroments TI & super duplex steels are the way to go...I personally hate that all my "SS"-gear get a fine layer of rust as soon as I forget to rinse it...
Urban legend i think due to the high O2 content and Ti problem, maybe a job for myth bustersgrazie42:
Ferralium or Hastalloy B might be nice for tanks, definite geek value, but the strength is not as good as Chr mo and so steel tanks are here for a while yet i tink:shakehead
I am a firm believer in titanium for certain applications. My watch - for instance. I had never had a stainless steel watch last more than three years because the stem would corrode, either pitting -becoming sharp and uncomfortable, or actually falling off. Apparently my sweat is very corrosive. I have had my current titanium watch almost ten years and it is pristene.
The light weight of a titanium knife certainly negates the knife's effectiveness as a hammer. I believe that most titanium knives are not worth the money because the alloys and processing are not properly controlled to assure the hardness needed for a good edge, the ductility needed for prying, the impact resistance needed to resist abuse, and corrosion resistance. Some manufacturers have good QC on their product, but many knives come from the lowest bidder in China meaning the quality is inferior and the knife may fail when you really need it. The 400 series stainless used in most knives is easy to get right metalugically even if it isn't great for corrosion resistance.
The light weight of a titanium knife certainly negates the knife's effectiveness as a hammer. I believe that most titanium knives are not worth the money because the alloys and processing are not properly controlled to assure the hardness needed for a good edge, the ductility needed for prying, the impact resistance needed to resist abuse, and corrosion resistance. Some manufacturers have good QC on their product, but many knives come from the lowest bidder in China meaning the quality is inferior and the knife may fail when you really need it. The 400 series stainless used in most knives is easy to get right metalugically even if it isn't great for corrosion resistance.
deadend
Guest
Titanium knives are the only piece of ti gear I own and I'll never have another type due to the supreme corrosion resistance. Every ss knife I've had had corrosion issues and I've never even rinsed the ti knife and it is pristine and subdues fish great. A knife is not a prying tool and shouldn't be used as a crowbar. If I need to do some heavy prying I'll bring down the appropriate tools.
Regarding the ideal material for gas cylinders, conventional Chr-Mo steel might be perfect if it were appropriately surface treated. Specifically, the carbonitriding process may be ideal because it embeds nitrogen into iron-containing alloys to create a corrosion-resistant finish that is a dull grey in colour, very hard, and extremely corrosion resistant.
In fact, GLOCK use this process to protect the steel parts of its pistols. From Wikipedia:
Assuming the heating involved doesn't significantly reduce steel cylinder strength, the carbonitriding process could make steel cylinders practically immortal.
Sadamune
In fact, GLOCK use this process to protect the steel parts of its pistols. From Wikipedia:
Assuming the heating involved doesn't significantly reduce steel cylinder strength, the carbonitriding process could make steel cylinders practically immortal.
Sadamune
Similar threads
