Titanic tourist sub goes missing sparking search

[OMyMyOHellYes]

Only if a jury or a judge decides so.

No, guilt or innocence is NEVER established by judge or jury.

It is established by commission of a defined criminal action, undertaken with the proscribed culpable mindset(1). That is guilt. Not doing the prohibited action would be innocence.

The only part a judge or jury plays is deciding if the government prosecutor has presented sufficient evidentiary matter to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. If so, then State sanctions can be applied.

Summary:
Commiting the act(1) = guilt or innocence. Decided solely by the criminal.

Deciding if prosecutor presented sufficient evidence = conviction. Done by jury or in some cases a judge. The only impact from the judge/jury is if the actor gets sanctioned for their criminal act (jail, fine, or death).

There is a difference in committing a crime (guilt) and proving a crime (conviction).

(1) Intentional, Knowing, Reckless, or Criminally negligent

 

[kissonerga.ccr]

I don't think it matters. This isn't like a plane crashing for unknown reasons.

We know the cause here was complete structural failure. The only major engineering question is where the failure occurred. Since both titanium end caps were discovered in the debris field, we can already be reasonably certain that the carbon fiber section failed. More detailed analysis will come from examining any pieces of the hull they can pick up.

Flange pieces of the cylindrical section, the ones that were mated to the reciprocal bits on the end caps, they had to be made of titanium too, no? Those flanges had to be bonded to / imbedded into the carbon fiber walls. That‘d be my #1 suspect area. Two dissimilar materials reacting differently to huge changes in applied load

 

[OMyMyOHellYes]

Is that supposed to be a demonstration that the CEO committed a crime? Nothing to do with diving but… there were many more evidences of misconducts, concealments, lies to a federal agency, disregard to safety including people being fired for raising safety issues and so on and so forth in cases like Boeing 737 Max crashes that killed 346 people (not 5 even though there was no billionaire on board) because of the MCAS (no training and no information given to the pilots). Was there an excuse for that? Have those 346 casualties signed a waiver before boarding? Was Boeing CEO on board or counting beans at his office? Has anyone been prosecuted or at least given a slap on the wrist? No. Unacceptable conduct and crime look very much subjective after that.

Good attempt to steer the discussion off course.

The 737 crashes would have been prevented by one thing: better airmanship (Hey! The system is doing something we don't think it should do! Action: disengage the system and fly the airplane by hand). That was the pilot's job. And had it been done, those planes would likely not crashed. Basic airmanship; every pilot should just know this.

After all the hand wringing, the "solution"? To distill it, pilots are reminded that if the system is making the airplane do something it should not be doing, disengage the system and fly the plane by hand.

 

[OMyMyOHellYes]

The question was whether firefighters carry oxygen as part of their kit, not necessarily into a fire. Also, in a literal sense, oxygen itself is not combustible.

Just setting the nomenclature straight

Actually, it was the comparison to the tanks in typical SCBA systems to SCUBA tanks (how they look alike), inspiring use of "oxygen tanks" by the "general public". Oxygen tanks. Not rebreather systems in hazmat ops.

 

[Akimbo]

I'd forgotten also about Pisces III.
So to list lost submersibles known now
1968 Alvin: recovered and returned to service
1973 Johnson Sea Link: crew suffocated but sub returned to service
1973 Pisces III: sub repaired and returned to surface
1995 Delta: entangled on Lusitania and lost propeller. Returned to service
2006 AS-28: entangled in nets and rescued
2023 Titan: Lost

My brother rescued a submersible operated by Intersub in France on
Christmas day 1978. He was in sat on the Seaway Swan when they were called over to rescue the entangled boat.

If I remember correctly, he said a line was sucked into a prop, which he cut to free them. They were told to stay on the bottom until he and the Seaway Swan, a large dynamically positioned semisubmersible, was clear but they dropped weight and went up anyway. They were very lucky the didn't hit the Swan's props or smash into the hull.

---

Some readers who are confused about how manned submersibles work may find this thread helpful:
Info Manned deep submersibles, a brief history

 

[Pearlman]

What is the estimated depth of the submersible at 1:45hrs if going down on its planned trajectory? I am also curious why the wreck was found 1600ft away from the Bow of the Titanic when they had planned to cruise over and all around the wreck?

 

[rhwestfall]

Crude math: 12,000 feet and I think they said 2 hours to get down.

12,000/120 = 100'/min

1.74x60x100 = 10,500 feet is maybe the depth

As to why 1,600 feet away? Currents maybe...

 

[Wookie]

What is the estimated depth of the submersible at 1:45hrs if going down on its planned trajectory? I am also curious why the wreck was found 1600ft away from the Bow of the Titanic when they had planned to cruise over and all around the wreck?

LMGTFY

By the time communication was lost, the vessel would have been just shy of 10,000 feet below the surface, experts told The Post, at which point the enormous water pressure would mean any tiny weakness, crack or fissure in the submersible’s hull would cause it to instantly implode.

1600 feet isn't that far off. It isnt like they have active sonar telling them where to go.

 

[rhwestfall]

And here I went and did the math... Thanks Frank...

 

[Wookie]

And here I went and did the math... Thanks Frank...

Sorry, Man.