OP
Agreed, the reverse is true here also.
Rant over.
Tipping-History
- Thread starter Pressurehead
- Start date
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Rant over.
stiebs
Contributor
I don't think the intent of the OP was to undermine the custom, nor the acceptance of its important place in the economy in countries where reliance on tipping is integral to pay hospitality workers fairly , but more questioning whether there is, or could be, a macro shift in practice that would negate the reliance on a voluntary contribution to supplement a wage.
Eg, are there any businesses whose workers would otherwise require tips to earn a decent wage, that openly advertise that they pay their workers sufficiently above minimum wage that they do not rely on tips?
Or are there any unions or other employee advocate organisations that are lobbying toward this?
I'm also in Australia, so tipping is something I need to consciously think about when I'm in a country such as the US. Although in Oz we do sometimes tip in restaurants, it is not expected. Especially with the rise of tap'n'go payments, where the bill is rung up on the payment terminal straight from the cash register then paid with a tap of the phone, adding a tip becomes cumbersome.
I speak personally, but also from observation, that a *lot* of people do not carry cash any more.
Then there's the rise of the digital gig economy, where US based companies like Uber are encouraging the tipping culture into other countries where it doesn't exist.
Stiebs,
Pressurehead might not have provoked the reaction he did if he hadn't started out by labeling the practice "outdated" (Why? What innovation made it unnecessary?), associating it with the Civil War, and implying Americans don't take as much pride in their work as the Japanese. Imagine the reception an American would get if he showed up in Australia, called your customs outmoded, said they were vestiges of the need to govern a populace of criminals, and said you should take a character lesson from a third country.
Is there a macro shift coming regarding tipping in the US?
If anything, it's going the other direction. I now see tip jars and opportunities to add tips to electronic purchases at places I had not hitherto considered tipping. The other day, I went to a seafood market, was courteously waited on, inserted my credit card, and was surprised to see an opportunity to add a gratuity. The clerk had been very patient while my wife deliberated, so I did give him something--but a tip for a fish monger? That was new for me.
There is grocery store chain in my state that always offers to carry your purchases to your car and has an explicit policy against tipping. But they are deliberately old fashioned, or as some would say "outdated."
Pressurehead might not have provoked the reaction he did if he hadn't started out by labeling the practice "outdated" (Why? What innovation made it unnecessary?), associating it with the Civil War, and implying Americans don't take as much pride in their work as the Japanese. Imagine the reception an American would get if he showed up in Australia, called your customs outmoded, said they were vestiges of the need to govern a populace of criminals, and said you should take a character lesson from a third country.
Is there a macro shift coming regarding tipping in the US?
If anything, it's going the other direction. I now see tip jars and opportunities to add tips to electronic purchases at places I had not hitherto considered tipping. The other day, I went to a seafood market, was courteously waited on, inserted my credit card, and was surprised to see an opportunity to add a gratuity. The clerk had been very patient while my wife deliberated, so I did give him something--but a tip for a fish monger? That was new for me.
There is grocery store chain in my state that always offers to carry your purchases to your car and has an explicit policy against tipping. But they are deliberately old fashioned, or as some would say "outdated."
Fair enough. It did read a little off putting but I get where your coming from now.
I was quite impressed to see Australia’s minimum wage level. It’s at an ideal that a lot of people have been pushing for a lot of years in a lot of countries. That really lies at the base of the need for tipping.
A little respectful discussion and mutual understanding among differing opinions is a lost thing these days... so let’s talk and learn... the world doesn’t get any better when we live in echo chambers.
Another massive factor is the abuse of the ‘house’ taking a cut of the tips left, especially when paid on card (as an earlier poster alluded to). Sometimes they take a cut and use it to bring the employees up the mandated minimum wage. It’s why I always put the cash in the hands of the person I’m tipping.
Heck... one time I tipped a dive leader underwater because the resort he worked for didn’t allow tipping (AI in Jamaica) but I knew he was barely at a subsistence level of earning.
If a living wage was the norm then tipping would fade away... until then though I’ll carry a little cash ;-)
Heck... one time I tipped a dive leader underwater because the resort he worked for didn’t allow tipping (AI in Jamaica) but I knew he was barely at a subsistence level of earning.
If a living wage was the norm then tipping would fade away... until then though I’ll carry a little cash ;-)
Blackcrusader
Contributor
Tipping is not done in Taiwan and banned in Singapore. Many places already add a service charge.
I worked as a waiter in a silver service restaurant in Australia. No one ever expected a tip and where I worked the tips were pooled and shared. I known many places to have a tip jar and that money only ever goes to the owners never the staff. When I go diving in the Philippines instead out handing out cash tips to say a guide I buy a pig and chickens and fish and we do a BBQ at the end of my stay for all the staff and their families. There is enough food left over they can take it home.
I don't tip on dive trips in Taiwan either, no one does and yet wages here are not high. When you go to a gas station here the staff fill up your vehicle. No tipping required it's part of their job. In Australia you fill up your own vehicle.
Tipping someone is nice when it is not expected as the recipient is genuinely happy. I found in the US tipping was expected and you some people got ****** if they didn't get their "expected %" For people who live their lives without needing to tip sometimes it's hard to know what to tip? 10% 15% 20% Would that not depend on the total.
I worked as a waiter in a silver service restaurant in Australia. No one ever expected a tip and where I worked the tips were pooled and shared. I known many places to have a tip jar and that money only ever goes to the owners never the staff. When I go diving in the Philippines instead out handing out cash tips to say a guide I buy a pig and chickens and fish and we do a BBQ at the end of my stay for all the staff and their families. There is enough food left over they can take it home.
I don't tip on dive trips in Taiwan either, no one does and yet wages here are not high. When you go to a gas station here the staff fill up your vehicle. No tipping required it's part of their job. In Australia you fill up your own vehicle.
Tipping someone is nice when it is not expected as the recipient is genuinely happy. I found in the US tipping was expected and you some people got ****** if they didn't get their "expected %" For people who live their lives without needing to tip sometimes it's hard to know what to tip? 10% 15% 20% Would that not depend on the total.
runsongas
Contributor
tipping local staff is one of the few ways that the dive industry provides an equitable direct benefit in travel destinations. nobody is getting rich schlepping your tanks, refilling your drinks, cooking/serving your food, and cleaning your rooms from some tips, but it can make the difference between a subsistence living and one that is sustainable as a career for local staff (who frequently have families they have to support).
There are different cultures, and different customs associated. When I first travelled to US, in 1997, I did not know about the fact that tipping was "mandatory".
Here in Europe we are not used to such a mandatory tipping, and I generally never tip here.
Here in Italy we are instead used to asking for a discount, paying LESS than the standard price, both for food, drinks, or a for a taxi ride. Paying MORE looks completely absurd to us...
So I incurred in a number of unpleasant situations, until a waiter at the hotel did take the time of explaining me how the tipping system works in the US. Generally speaking, it is the only way for normal workers for not being ripped by the taxes, as tips are generally undeclared as an income.
This made me even more nervous, here in Italy people who take actions far avoiding taxes are considered the worst of criminals, true parasites of the society. My wage at the University is paid by the Italian public administration, and people saving on their due taxes are ripping my country and making it more difficult to pay my wage.
This means that I am totally against this concept of paying workers through untaxed tips instead of through a regular wage, subjected to income tax.
But I had to adapt myself to the local customs, so when I travel in countries were tipping is mandatory, I always tip at the minimum allowed and typically using the credit card so I have proof of the tip paid (which is of course required when I present the bills to my administration, for being refunded of the travel expenses).
Another problem I often encounter is that in many places I do not get a proper legally-bounding bill when I pay. I need it for being refunded, it is not acceptable that, when traveling for work, I loose money due to payments not providing me a proper bill.
I find profoundly wrong to tip by cash, leaving no electronic track of the payment. And I always pretend to get proper receipt for the tip paid, for being refunded - no receipt, no tip!. I respect the work done by waitresses and other service personnel, but I find unacceptable that I have to loose my own money not being able to be refunded for feeding this absurd tipping system.
Luckily enough these concepts are now widespread, and getting an electronic receipt for the tip paid is becoming more standard nowadays.
Here in Europe we are not used to such a mandatory tipping, and I generally never tip here.
Here in Italy we are instead used to asking for a discount, paying LESS than the standard price, both for food, drinks, or a for a taxi ride. Paying MORE looks completely absurd to us...
So I incurred in a number of unpleasant situations, until a waiter at the hotel did take the time of explaining me how the tipping system works in the US. Generally speaking, it is the only way for normal workers for not being ripped by the taxes, as tips are generally undeclared as an income.
This made me even more nervous, here in Italy people who take actions far avoiding taxes are considered the worst of criminals, true parasites of the society. My wage at the University is paid by the Italian public administration, and people saving on their due taxes are ripping my country and making it more difficult to pay my wage.
This means that I am totally against this concept of paying workers through untaxed tips instead of through a regular wage, subjected to income tax.
But I had to adapt myself to the local customs, so when I travel in countries were tipping is mandatory, I always tip at the minimum allowed and typically using the credit card so I have proof of the tip paid (which is of course required when I present the bills to my administration, for being refunded of the travel expenses).
Another problem I often encounter is that in many places I do not get a proper legally-bounding bill when I pay. I need it for being refunded, it is not acceptable that, when traveling for work, I loose money due to payments not providing me a proper bill.
I find profoundly wrong to tip by cash, leaving no electronic track of the payment. And I always pretend to get proper receipt for the tip paid, for being refunded - no receipt, no tip!. I respect the work done by waitresses and other service personnel, but I find unacceptable that I have to loose my own money not being able to be refunded for feeding this absurd tipping system.
Luckily enough these concepts are now widespread, and getting an electronic receipt for the tip paid is becoming more standard nowadays.
In my experience as working as an instructor and crew on boats I find that the customer who needs the most attention and assistance to keep themselves from getting hurt are the worst tippers and those who are pretty much self sufficient tip the best. My tips have ranged from nothing to $100 to trips to grand Cayman or Bonaire
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