Time for a new forum?

[Jasonmh]

This is why people like Bob Sherwood don't bother to post here. He doesn't need to waste his time "arguing his case more extensively."

And where exactly is the charter of this forum which specifies that the purpose of it is to endlessly cross-examine proponents of DIR about the minutia of DIR? I know a lot of anti-DIR posters believe that's what its purpose should be, but most of the "proponents of DIR" have become tired of that game.

To be useful this forum should be about DIR and DIR divers. For the readers that aren't DIR, if this offends you, try to realize that not everything in life is about you.

And should I start posting in the solo forum trying to get the solo divers to argue their case more extensively? A DIR invasion of the solo forum could probably make that forum completely useless, just like this one...

I agree with what Lamont and others are saying. It is unfortunate, but it seems that opt-in is the only way to return this forum to any sort of usefulness. I don't have a problem with people asking questions, debating, poking around to see if DIR is for them, etc. But this forum has turned into a place where people who clearly have already decided that DIR is not for them to come and stir things up.
I think a new opt-in feature (like the solo forum) would help several ways. It might actually make people who are curious about DIR more likely to ask questions if they know they are not going to get blasted by anti-dir posters in this forum. Also, I really appreciate it when we get input from more experienced DIR divers, and instructors like MHK, Sherwood, and others. They might be more likely to post in an environment with less extraneous BS to wade through.

 

[OneBrightGator]

What's the point of a solo forum? A Hogarthian forum? A photography forum? A singles forum? Or any number of other forums this board has established? Clearly there are other ... and probably better ... places to find the information that's discussed in any of those forums.

Because, there is more then one way to dive solo, dive Hogarthian, take pictures and... be single, I suppose, but there is only one way to dive DIR, and you ain't gonna find it online.

Now a better question, Ben, would be why do you CARE whether or not there's a DIR forum? Clearly you've already established that it's something that doesn't, and never will, be of interest to you. OK ... that's fair enough. But nobody's making you come here.

You seem to be on a vendetta ... the problem is that the two DIR divers who hurt your feelings aren't here.

That's where you're wrong, DIR does interest me, this is one of the few forums I hit regularly to see what's going on. I wouldn't have read JJ's book if it wasn't interesting. Hell, I bet if you look, I've even given a DIR answer or two in this forum. I was only half joking earlier, if this forum becomes opt-in, I will (attempt to) join. Just because I do not subscribe to DIR, doesn't mean I will not learn from it.

Re-read the stories, Bob, and hopefully this time you'll figure out that I was a casual observer in both situations I discussed. Too bad a simple question can't get answered without trying to get personal, but it is par for the course.

 

[lamont]

Because, there is more then one way to dive solo, dive Hogarthian, take pictures and... be single, I suppose, but there is only one way to dive DIR, and you ain't gonna find it online.

I found out about DIR diving online. on this board.

 

[OneBrightGator]

I found out about DIR diving online. on this board.

Wait... so is that an argument for having the forum or for destroying it completely, never to speak of it again? :blinking:

(just kidding Lamont... )

 

[ArcticDiver]

All this discussion over several threads has to make any reasonable person wonder two things. First: Can any congregation agree on precisely what DIR is? Second: Just what is the Scubaboard DIR forum?

One person, who may be wiser than he thinks, observed that the DIR forum is home to the most passionate but the least illuminating arguements.

Things evolve over time. It may be that many aspects of the old dir practice have been adopted by many others. So, for one example, if a person is trained by one of those agencies are they dir? Or, must a person be trained by specific agencies to be considered dir? I've seen this point argued with no clear resolution.

So, maybe the thing to do is step back, take a breath and go back to fundamentals. First define just what it is we are talking about and who is and who is not in the dir camp, etc.

Then, after the dust settles, "encourage" everyone to do more discussion and less argueing.

That may hurt the hit count. But, it would perhaps produce something a bit more civil and useful.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Because, there is more then one way to dive solo, dive Hogarthian, take pictures and... be single, I suppose, but there is only one way to dive DIR, and you ain't gonna find it online.

I don't see where that argument has any relevence at all to the purpose of this forum.

That's where you're wrong, DIR does interest me, this is one of the few forums I hit regularly to see what's going on. I wouldn't have read JJ's book if it wasn't interesting. Hell, I bet if you look, I've even given a DIR answer or two in this forum. I was only half joking earlier, if this forum becomes opt-in, I will (attempt to) join. Just because I do not subscribe to DIR, doesn't mean I will not learn from it.

Then why are you saying that we shouldn't have a DIR forum?

Re-read the stories, Bob, and hopefully this time you'll figure out that I was a casual observer in both situations I discussed. Too bad a simple question can't get answered without trying to get personal, but it is par for the course.

With all due respect, Ben ... you're the one to made it personal. In a thread where the OP asked for reasons why people chose to go DIR, you responded with your reasons why you chose not to ... and those reasons were purely personal, as they had nothing whatsoever to do with diving. Furthermore, you stated in that post that you will not DIR. You even made a comment about "peeing in the coffee" ... which I took to mean that you KNEW you were trolling and were proud of it.

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3089585&postcount=15

Well, about 6 years ago, just before I got cave certified I was in a dive shop. One of my friends had recently been intro certified and being a college student didn't have a lot of money to spend on gear, in fact, the best light he could afford was a UK D8 (remember, 2001). He talked to one of the people who was working at the shop, who had helped him buy his gear and sign up for the class and was DIR, and asked if they would cave dive with him sometime. They said absolutely not, because he didn't have an HID cannister light, no offer to do cavern or an "easier" dive, just a flat out "No."

Sometime later a friend of mine was talking to a GUE instructor about cave diving, chatting for some time. The instructor asked who my friend's instructor was, upon hearing the name, he promptly turned on his heels and walked away without a word.

Because I can not act like either of these people did is why I do not believe DIR is the best nor will I ever strive to DIR. I guess your first experience has a big effect.

Sorry to pee in your coffee (std. issue black, no cream, no sugar)

If you don't want the conversation going personal, then don't take it there. The thread had nothing to do with what you posted.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Data]

OneBrightGator, you are one of those prime examples of people who should have no place in this forum.
You're completely misinformed, which can be read in many of your responses.
When you take DIR-F, almost all that you learn can be answered in black and white. This is where you get the impression that this, either black or white answer must be all of DIR and there are no shades of gray.
But as you progress, the thinking diver is formed and there are many ways to get to the same result and they all could or could not be DIR, but you'd never understand, since you haven't been there.
The only reason you come here is to disrupt and get into one of your useless arguments.
If you came here to learn, you could learn by observation.
I was opted-in at the solo divers forum for a long time, simply to see if they have anything to say that I could learn something from. My standpoint was clear, I already was DIR, but I still think I can learn a thing or two from anyone who dives, no matter what their personal choice of diving is.
The little difference for me being in the solo diver forum and for you being here, is: I never posted there!
So if you are serious about coming here because you might learn a thing or two, simply refrain from using that reply button, but I personally believe you can't, because you're looking for the attention that you can't get elsewhere.

 

[John_B]

Can any congregation agree on precisely what DIR is?

DIR is not a religion, its not a church, there are no acolytes, there is no congregation. Its just a method for team diving.

John

 

[John_B]

OneBrightGator, you are one of those prime examples of people who should have no place in this forum.
You're completely misinformed, which can be read in many of your responses.

Au contraire, mon ami. OBG is very informed (AFAIK he's EDIT: as it turns out NOT a cave instructor for another agency) and he knows exactly what he's doing, which is the equivalent to intentionally stirring up the silt in the DIR forum because he has an axe to grind against DIR.

John

 

[Mike Edmonston]

(AFAIK he's a cave instructor for another agency)

Cave instructor at 26 years of age??? Which agency please, I'd like to know. No dissrespect to OBG, but he could only have gotten his full cave cert at 18, therefore I believe it would be very difficult to be a cave instructor (NACD / NSS-CDS) with that level of experience. Although I could be very wrong. I suppose that he could be NAUI or GUE, but I cannot verify this.

Cheers