Thumbs Up/Down?

[tridacna]

I have done no research and to be honest, I only have a mild guess at the answer to the OP's question.

It seems to me that using the index finger to point up would really indicate "one", so a different finger would have to be used for "up". So let's see what our choices are. I think we can rule out the middle finger as it already has a universal meaning. The ring finger is just plain impossible to hold up by itself, and the little tiny pinky is A) too small to see and B) could call one's sexuality in to question. So the only finger left is not a finger at all. It is the thumb!

Here endith the lesson.

Nice (and possibly accurate) theory. You're only limiting this to one finger on one hand. The "buddy up" sign uses two fingers on two hands. "Watch me" could be mistaken for two. etc. And I have seen a few variations of "how much air do you have left". (I try to actually look at the SPG of any new diver-they are seldom in sync with what I am told). I just wonder how/when NAUI, PADI etc all decided on the same protocol. I guess that absent the input of one of the original decision makers, we'll never know.

 

[Walter]

That tends to mean "one"

FWIW my buddies and I normally use a circling motion with a raised index finger for "turn the dive,start to ascend " A thumb is reserved for "problem,abort,get out of here" A very emphatic thumb would be "get out of here NOW!!!" Fortunately I have never had to use that one.

I also use that for turn the dive, but not for ascend. If we just have to ascend from where we are, I use the ascend signal. Turn the dive would indicate returning to the ascend point or to the beach. I know some folks use the ascend signal to mean, "abort," but I've never used it that way.

 

[JahJahwarrior]

Is it really that hard for you to try and answer the original question?


Thanks for the "advice". Do you have anything to contribute here or are you just derailing the topic with a dumb troll? Here's my advice to you: Do a few more dives. Apparently you have much more experience with your middle finger than your thumb. :mooner:

Please don't make this into a pissing match, ok? I didn't come in here to be a donkey.

Original question:

Why were the "thumbs up" and thumbs down" signs adopted as standard dive practice for ascend and descend?

My answer was basically, "Why not? It works fine for me." Personal anecdotes are an acceptable answer, generally speaking, to most questions. I answered your question with a personal anecdote.

As for trying to make a "dumb troll,"

An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who intentionally posts controversial or contrary messages in an on-line community such as an on-line discussion forum with the intention of baiting users into an argumentative response.[1]

I did not post anything especially controversial, and I was not trying to bait anyone into an argumentative response. My post was meant to be somewhat humorous, and I've been around here for a while, I would hope that some people would recognize that I have a humorous take on things.

As for dives, according to your profile, you've got me there. But that doesn't mean diddly squat if the issue is the ability to use the internet. I think both of us are rather adept at that, and I don't think anything in my post warrants personal insults. You might notice that I have not gone so far as to return the favour.

 

[tridacna]

>> My answer was basically, "Why not?

I asked what the origin of using a "thumbs up" to indicate ascent was. Not whether I should follow your protocol of using a foot in your mouth to indicate ascent. Hijacking the thread and then whining when you are called doesn't work. If you don't know the answer, go to another thread. Don't get flippant and pretend that you are serious with silly answers.

 

[Rockhound76]

Wow.

I don't know the origins of the sign, or whether it might be counter-intuitive to some, but I am in favor of sticking to accepted conventions, even if you have "special signs" within the buddy team.

I was diving with an old friend last week, who just returned from "cave school". She told me that the school went well, but that she cut one dive short after being told to 'abort' by another diver. She said she was well back into a cave when she came up on a diver, a solo stranger, who was headed out on the main line. As they passed, he stopped and gave her a vigorous "thumbs up". She let him pass, then she and her team immediately followed him out.

At the surface, she approached and asked him what the problem was and why he told her to abort. His answer? "Jeesh, lady. I was telling you what a nice dive it was! Thumbs up, baby!".

She wasn't too happy, needless to say.

Keep your signs (within reason) 'standard'.

For my 14yr old, I have some special signs, but they don't conflict with any of the standard emergency or abort signs (example: single finger pointing up, 'capped' by flat palm, then three fingers and a point to the watch to remind him not to miss a 3min. safety stop. The flat hand held overhead is our sign for "ceiling", which can be modified to indicate depth by flashing the fingers in an out, similar to that used to describe pressure. Held flat, he knows what I mean, but I won't use that sign on anyone else.)

 

[tridacna]

...but I won't use that sign on anyone else.

Anyone who watched "Curb your enthusiasm" last night will definitely feel the pain of using the wrong sign!

 

[Ber Rabbit]

Think of the universal acceptance of a diver having a right hand release on his or her weight belt. Would there be a disaster to have a left handed release? I can't see why. But the right handed release is what a diver looks for if they have to ditch a buddy's or his or her own weight. Where did it come from...Don't know...I assume some of you do know...

When I learned to dive the BC didn't have a cummerbund, it had a waist strap that looked like a weightbelt. The BC buckle was a left hand release so the weightbelt was donned for right hand release. When you would actually need to release both buckles simultaneously isn't a subject for this thread but it could be done easily and quickly.

:focus:
Ber :lilbunny:

 

[gangrel441]

When I first got indoctrinated into this sport of ours 20 years ago this year, what I was taught was that you point your thumb where you want people to go, and you point your index finger where you want them to look. "Thumbs Up" didn't have anything to do with thumbs up...it had to do with pointing your thumb at the surface. Same with thumbs down. If you wanted to signal your buddy that you wanted to begin exploring to the east of your current position, you would point your thumb to the east. If you wanted take a closer look at the side of the hull of the wreck you were exploring, you would point your thumb at that part of the wreck. If you wanted your buddy to look at something on the side of the wreck, but not to approach it any closer, you would point to it with your index finger. Seemed quite logical to me.

As for the right-hand release....Ber, you are really bringing back some memories for me...no velcro cumberbund, no plastic snap clips....just a big ole' weightbelt buckle except facing the wrong direction...

 

[JahJahwarrior]

>> My answer was basically, "Why not?

I asked what the origin of using a "thumbs up" to indicate ascent was. Not whether I should follow your protocol of using a foot in your mouth to indicate ascent. Hijacking the thread and then whining when you are called doesn't work. If you don't know the answer, go to another thread. Don't get flippant and pretend that you are serious with silly answers.

You asked that, but you also asked "why." You had two questions: "Who" and "why." I answered "why" with a semi serious answer-- "Why not?" based on the principle of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." Someone started it, and it worked. Of course, the answer is somewhat humorous but it does have its serious side.

Then you get all pissy at me because I tried to be somewhat humorous and apply the IIABDFI/KISS principle at the same time. Then you go and start calling me a troll, which I am not, and now you call me a thread "hijacker." Once again, you are incorrect. I would be a hijacker if I came here and said "You know, I don' know the answer to your question, Tridacna, but I've been wondering for a while, why do we use the point to your buddy then point to your mask to indicate 'watch me'?" That's a thread hijack. What I did was make a joke, something that is entirely allowed and usually people enjoy it.

As for being flippant, I never claimed to be anything other than mildly flippant in this thread. I'm a flippant person. I make puns. I make wisecracks. I absolutely love homonyms. I say silly things in tense moments to reduce tensions. Most of SB loves to be silly, and I did not anticipate such an anti-silliness in this thread. I'm very sorry if you feel I am wasting your time, but I believe I am following forum rules and I'm certain I'm not taking up much server space, and I'm trying to be incredibly polite.

Rockhound--just curious, why did your friend follow the signs of someone who is not her buddy? If my dad tells me to get in the house, I'll listen. If a stranger tells me to get in his house, I won't! If another diver told me I needed to surface, I wouldn't listen. If he was OOA, I would, but nobody but me or my buddy decides we need to surface. I could see where it would be a courtesy of sorts to make sure the person was alright, but I really probably wouldn't have. He's responsible for his life, I'm responsible for mine. Was her instructor leading? If not, did the instructor comment on her decision to follow the diver? Who was her instructor? (I'm in Cave Land so I know some of them)

 

[konasdad]

Why were the "thumbs up" and thumbs down" signs adopted as standard dive practice for ascend and descend? It seems counterintuitive

I think the fact that it appears more counterintuitive is probably also a factor. That is, it is a more intentional and distinct "sign" when compared to pointing one's finger.

what I was taught was that you point your thumb where you want people to go, and you point your index finger where you want them to look.

I think for "concept types" in particular (like me), it is a good idea to emphasize more the above concept in dive training and with dive buddies.

-Mark-