Three man buddy teams

[Uncle Pug]

Agreed on the husband/wife *team*... been there done that. I just let him go.

 

[novadiver]

Three diver teams are fine in open water, but in a cave or wreck the " team " just added more failure points in their gear. When I'm diving in a group of three I make it known that I'm the solo third diver, They should dive like a buddy team and never look for me.This takes all the stress out of their dive and works well for me.

I'm not trying to highjack the thread, But there are several dives that just don't work as a three diver team. Most of the dives are very advanced and should not be tried by any diver that isn't prepared to finish solo

 

[trob09]

Three diver teams are fine in open water, but in a cave or wreck the " team " just added more failure points in their gear. When I'm diving in a group of three I make it known that I'm the solo third diver, They should dive like a buddy team and never look for me.This takes all the stress out of their dive and works well for me.

I'm not trying to highjack the thread, But there are several dives that just don't work as a three diver team. Most of the dives are very advanced and should not be tried by any diver that isn't prepared to finish solo

The glass is half empty, eh Nova? Those same 'failure points' can also be seen as additional safety factors.

Pug is right though, it requires a team-minded approach rather than same water/same day diving buddies. With a true team, it doesn't really matter if there are 2 or 3 divers. The challenge - I've found - is to have that team approach hold true as dives get more serious.

I am fortunate to have found a buddy who shares the same mindset on our dives. By that I mean not just protocol on things like order, signalling and deco proceedures, but also interest and pace. We generally look forward to doing the same things on dives at the same pace. It is truly a joy to dive with this buddy and I would prefer to dive with him anywhere.

We have had a 'third' on many of our dives and I have been on other teams of 3. While this has always worked, I notice an increase in divergence as the dive challenge grows. simply put, the more serious the dive, the more individuals want to follow their interest. And when you're talking about $1,000 boat fee and nearly that much in gas for a deep technical charter here in the NE, I understand that desire. It's one thing to have an instructor or senior diver leading a couple of other divers. It's another to have 3 equally skilled divers share a plan AND a mindset.

The problem is that these are the very dives where the team approach has the biggest benefit. So, to answer Mike's question, Teams of 3 can work and work well. My experience is that it's easier to have a 2-person team on the same page in more complex/serious dives.

Tim

 

[MikeFerrara]

Three diver teams are fine in open water, but in a cave or wreck the " team " just added more failure points in their gear.

We often dive teams of three in caves and wrecks. I suppose it does add failure points but it also adds resources to deal with a failure. A three person team may even be easier to manage in a cave than in OW for a couple of reasons. First of all it's dark so lights are always easily visable. You're also following a line in a passage of limited demensions so staying in position is pretty much a no-brainer. The good vis found in many caves is also a plus.

On the other end of the spectrum of course are very small caves (maybe with no vis) where it's hard to dive it any way other than alone. Some of us just don't dive those caves though. LOL

When I'm diving in a group of three I make it known that I'm the solo third diver, They should dive like a buddy team and never look for me.This takes all the stress out of their dive and works well for me.

That's not a team of three. It's a solo dive.

I'm not trying to highjack the thread, But there are several dives that just don't work as a three diver team. Most of the dives are very advanced and should not be tried by any diver that isn't prepared to finish solo

No diver should do any dive unless he/she is confident they can finish the dive alone if they must. I also agree that there are times when a team of three isn't the best way to go. Uncle Pug gave one example and I'm sure we could come up with others.

 

[novadiver]

The glass is half empty, eh Nova? Those same 'failure points' can also be seen as additional safety factors.

Pug is right though, it requires a team-minded approach rather than same water/same day diving buddies. With a true team, it doesn't really matter if there are 2 or 3 divers. The challenge - I've found - is to have that team approach hold true as dives get more serious.

I am fortunate to have found a buddy who shares the same mindset on our dives. By that I mean not just protocol on things like order, signalling and deco proceedures, but also interest and pace. We generally look forward to doing the same things on dives at the same pace. It is truly a joy to dive with this buddy and I would prefer to dive with him anywhere.

We have had a 'third' on many of our dives and I have been on other teams of 3. While this has always worked, I notice an increase in divergence as the dive challenge grows. simply put, the more serious the dive, the more individuals want to follow their interest. And when you're talking about $1,000 boat fee and nearly that much in gas for a deep technical charter here in the NE, I understand that desire. It's one thing to have an instructor or senior diver leading a couple of other divers. It's another to have 3 equally skilled divers share a plan AND a mindset.

The problem is that these are the very dives where the team approach has the biggest benefit. So, to answer Mike's question, Teams of 3 can work and work well. My experience is that it's easier to have a 2-person team on the same page in more complex/serious dives.

Tim

If the third diver in line , is in zero viz, than there is no use in being there. That diver adds risk just because they are in the water, and they can't come to your aid because they can't see, But I will agree that these dives are more technical in nature to start with.

 

[Mark Vlahos]

I travel on budiness alot and find myself on dive boats without a built in buddy. Sometimes I get paired up with a great diver and we have fun in a standard two person buddy team, but unfortunately most of the time it seems that I end up as a three person team. My only criticism of the three person team is that even if you plan the dive well each of the three divers needs to stick to the plan.

Following is a hypothetical situation based on a conglomoration of my past experiences. For this example please assume that we have discussed our dive and the need to maintain contact, we have also discussed what to do in the event of a separation.

When diving in a three person team made up of strangers on a dive boat, if I am the only person paying attention it can be difficult to keep the other two divers together. For example if I am in the middle of the three divers and the diver on my right is about 15 to 20 feet away looking intently at somthing and the diver on my left swims around the corner of a coral head 15 to 20 feet away the team concept has disintegrated. I am paying attention to each of the other divers, and they may be paying attention to me (or not) but they are certainly NOT paying any attention to each other. Each of these divers was within a few fin kicks of me in the event of a problem but when one is self absorbed and the other swims out of view I am stuck. If I swim after the wanderer I leave the first diver alone, but if I stay with the first diver the wanderer is on his own. Of course we would follow our plan on searching for one minute and then surfacing to find the missing diver, but by this point the team concept has failed, because one diver chose not to keep the other two divers in sight and reasonably close contact.

I guess that my coments only reenforce the team concept, but it is difficult to apply in the real world when you are paired up with strangers on a dive boat. My choice in the situation above is to stick with the first diver and hope that the other diver wanders back, of course I will try to keep his bubbles in view and if possible keep in contact, but if he is intent on running away, so be it. There has been much talk about teams and teams when all members participate are a wonderful thing, but when divers do not keep an eye on their buddy a three person team is a lot more trouble to manage that a traditional two person team.

Mark Vlahos

 

[trob09]

If the third diver in line , is in zero viz, than there is no use in being there. That diver adds risk just because they are in the water, and they can't come to your aid because they can't see, But I will agree that these dives are more technical in nature to start with.

If your mindset is that other divers are a liability, it's better that you stay solo. I choose to believe that my buddies are assets and treat them that way.

It's pretty easy to make vis go to 0 inside a sub at 230' or wreck at 250'. I have had no problems with maintaining buddy contact and communication in those situations.

If you want it to work, it will. If you don't, it won't.

 

[novadiver]

If your mindset is that other divers are a liability, it's better that you stay solo. I choose to believe that my buddies are assets and treat them that way.

It's pretty easy to make vis go to 0 inside a sub at 230' or wreck at 250'. I have had no problems with maintaining buddy contact and communication in those situations.

If you want it to work, it will. If you don't, it won't.

Push, pull, sqeeze two times, figure 8 in the hand, works well with two divers, but three divers doing zero viz touch contact signs are burning through gas quick and slowwing the exit, that's a bad thing in overhead. Three diver teams in open water pose no additional risk( imo) but three diver teams are not always the answer in any overhead ( wreck, sump, cave or well )

But the three diver team question does lead to other questions , do all the divers in the team have the same sac rate, gas mix, deco mix. Does one diver stay outside and let the other two penatrate.( kind of like a safety diver ), Does the gas management plan need to be changed( or is it , the first diver to thirds thumbs it )

All things concidered , I'll stay solo or be the last in line for the three diver team

 

[Snowbear]

But the three diver team question does lead to other questions , do all the divers in the team have the same sac rate, gas mix, deco mix.

gas and deco mix - yes. Sac rate, not necessarily (answered later)

Does one diver stay outside and let the other two penatrate.

The team stays together.

Does the gas management plan need to be changed( or is it , the first diver to thirds thumbs it )

No, the plan does not change, the first diver to thirds turns the dive.

All things concidered , I'll stay solo or be the last in line for the three diver team

Probably best you stay solo. Someone with this mindset is a detriment to the team, especially when he insists on "being the last in line" and doesn't believe in the team concept.

 

[trob09]

All things concidered , I'll stay solo or be the last in line for the three diver team

If your mindset is 'ready to bail on the team at any moment' then you will never reap the benefits of the team approach. Just so we're clear, I am not criticizing solo diving. I know some very accomplished divers who only dive solo. After doing that for years myself, I prefer diving with a team that supports each other.

My suggestion to you is don't pretend to be a part of a team if you insist on being last so you can bail.