Three man buddy teams

[Marek K]

Examining your post it is clear that the problem really wasn't with the number three... it was the lack of a TEAM.

It appears obvious, to me at least, that what you describe, while all too typical, is the lack of team diving skills on the part of all participants.

Pug, you're absolutely correct. That's why I put the word "team" into parentheses in my post. We were definitely not a team on that dive, and I for one learned a strong lesson. Several lessons, in fact.

Three-person teams would work just fine for divers used to working with one another. And I know they can work for casual teams thrown together on a boat, assuming everyone understood the concept of "team" (pre-dive coordination!) and remembered basic diving SOPs (keeping an eye on buddy/buddies). And I understand three-person teams can be safer, because of increased redundancy and helping hands.

But even assuming all three buddies do what they're supposed to, keeping track of two others is at least somewhat tougher than just one. Advantages of a three-pack may out-weigh that, but...

And assuming what I ran into, I think a problem like that could be solved a lot easier with a two-person team... like, if your "buddy" for some reason takes off from you, you can sprint to catch up to him without fearing losing your other buddy, grab him by the harness (or whatever), and "gently" remind him to stay together.

Again, you're right... there wouldn't be any problem like that with a good three-pack.

--Marek

 

[Rick Inman]

We always try to keep the leader in the middle with the other two divers on his/her wings. Personally I like dive teams like this.

This is such an interesting topic to me, 'cause I so often dive in teams(?) of three, but so little about the proper way to do this is discussed.
Obviously you start from the fact that a "buddy" or "team" member is defined differently based on where your training comes from (PADI, DIR, whatever...), and then adding the third member only increases to the lack of standardization.
So, as OEX2 says, do you dive with one leader and two followers? Who watches who? Does the leader watch the others and then they watch him. Does everybody watch everybody? What exactly is buddy (or team) awareness in a threesome? What is DIR's official take on this?
This inquiring mind wants to know...

 

[moneysavr]

"Team" says it all,Works so well with a diver on a new site, guide runs the middle and one diver each side,NO-ONE LAGS-and lead diver takes a slow tour type pace,stopping at areas of intrest,or stopping if a diver finds or stops to look.
It is a great buddy "team" aproach.

 

[getwet2]

Here's my take from my own experiences on vacations.

I've been in threesomes that were better then twosomes and some twosomes I've only done once. I'm usually the odd man out on the boat so I get teamed up with who ever happens to be available. On one or two occasions the person I've be buddied up with speaks limited english and I don't speak their native language so it's difficult at times and it's very apparent that not everyone really understands the concept of "buddy".

You get down to depth and they take off, they don't check very often if at all on the other, they keep switching sides right after you check on them or they are so close to you, you'd think they were a dolphin trying to mate with you.

My personal opinion is the slowest diver sets the pace for the others not the fastest, that goes for twosomes or threesomes. You should stay on the same side whenever possible and actually at their side, if you want to stop while drift diving, please, just let the other ones know before hand, don't let them find out on there own when they go to look for you. Also stay close but not too close, a couple of fin kicks away at most if you want.

With the tropical diving vacations, you and your buddy/buddies still follow the general group of other divers because the DM (aka tour guide) is leading everyone in the general direction he wants you to go, plus he is the one with the surface marker so the boat is going to be following him.

This past summer I was diving with a relative in low visibility, 15', on a small wreck in 60' of water. I stuck my head in to an opening to take a look around right after he did and when I pulled my head out he was gone, I lost him for about 30 seconds. He didn't bring a light, I did, just to poke around in the dark holes. When we got on the surface I asked why he swam off and didn't let me know, he said it wasn't a problem he could see where I was by my light. I explained to him he why he was a stupid *** and to next time stay with me, bring a light or we're going to use my little buddy leash or we don't dive.

I guess we'll see this summer if he listened or not.

I guess what I'm saying is, twosomes, threesomes, they both work and ones no better or worse then the other if you have the right people and the right communication between those people but still, some people will say they understand the term "buddy" when they really don't, you just don't know until you dive with them.

 

[Uncle Pug]

HID lights and passive communication.

 

[wscdive]

On a recent recreational dive in florida my buddy and I were told by the operator to include a third diver in our group. The diver refused saying he had bad experiences as a triple. I explained that I was an instructor and that my method of diving triple was to have the two of them dive as a buddy team while following me as the dive leader. This takes the responsibilty of locating me off the pair and lets me basically be responsible for keeping track of my buddy(the pair). This makes it much less confusing for everyone and we had a great dive. I am an instructor so am used to diving this way anyway but it seems to be a good way for any triple to operate.

 

[Uncle Pug]

I don't agree with your thinking, wscdive.

You were not diving as a team member and no one was responsible for you. (Are you saying that your training and experience as a dive instructor eliminated the need for you personally to have a dive buddy?)

What you had was not a three diver team but a couple of tourist following a guide.

Now this may be perfectly fine in your dive environment... but it is not a three diver team... and does not provide the advantages that a true three diver team provides.

 

[tkrock]

I saw that Uncle promised a thread dealing with three man teams. I went looking for it but didn't find it so I thought I'd start one.

On another thread a few people seemed to think three man teams were a no-no and thought every one (especially instructors) should know this and were somehow incompetant if they didn't.

Personally, I like three man teams (and I'm an instructor...though inactive at this time). It's that many more hands, eyes and brains in a manageable sized package. True it's a little different than diving in a two man team but it works well. I don't like bigger teams and when there's more than three we break up into multiple 2 or 3 person teams.

Please comment as you see fit but before replying that 3 person teams are somehow taboo you might want to look into what some of the agencies like NACD, NSS-CDS, GUE, IANTD, TDI and others have to say on the subject.

What say you?
On your mark...get set..go!

I love to do the three man team. I typically am the leader of the group. I never stop checking on anyone. As in a good business, the BOSS is responsible for gains or losses. Yes the "buddie" screws up on the field but... the BOSS needs to see that he is a screw up and get rid of him. My point is the leader should be setting the pace yet checking to see if his pace is too fast, slow, etc.. to the others It is also the leaders responsiblity for him/her to say, I'm the leader, stick with me and no one will get lost or the next dive your not going with me. And the buddie(s) should be watching the leader.
I think when you can relate this topic to other things in life and how they work on the land in threesomes... You can then take the same key ideas and concepts down under!!!!!

 

[kidspot]

Thanks to everyone who is contributing here, I'm learning a lot from this thread . . . is there a similar one dealing with 2 person buddy teams from the past that anyone can suggest? Some of us new guys are eager to be good buddies/team members but need to know what that really means. And threads like this are great to get us thinking about what teamwork is all about.

Mahalo,
Tim

P.S. I did do a search, but this is a broad key word and I didn't find anything comparable.

 

[Uncle Pug]

do a search on buddy AND skills ... that should get you started.
add in passive AND communication to further refine.

Or just review all of my previous 10K posts on the board for a comprehensive treatise on everything.