Three divers die in a cave accident, Punta Iacco, Palinuro Italy Aug. 2016

[fsardone]

As a vacation diver I am familiar with the wall dive world. What would be the minimum gear for a cave dive at 50M?

To cave dive at 50 mt you need at least:
redundant air source (separated twins possibly with a stage tank)
deco gas
triple lamp
double mask
helmet (low tunnel involved here)
main reel (I use elastic bands to tie down line)
emergency spool (lost line search)
cutting tools
proper training
and above all a PLAN!

Cheers

 

[CuzzA]

It is education. All divers need to know their limits and learn to manage risk. There should be an article in tech diving magazione issue 22 September 2016 ... covering decision making and risk management.
Fact is education in our sport varies widely, is left to the good will of each of us and people take risks they are not able to fully understand.

So in other words, rather than just tell an open water student, "don't do it", instead start teaching some of the reasons why?

I don't recall what was talked about in my OW course regarding overheads. Perhaps someone who teaches can refresh us to what the book says.

Of course staying active in the sport, participating here and researching has taught me a great deal about overheads and why I won't go in one unless I receive the training and feel confident I can handle it.

 

[Storker]

With no information I would assume a wall dive would be a recreational AL80 dive ala Cozumel. Max depth above 100 feet.

More or less. Except based on my limited experience I'd expect the tank to be a 15Lx200bar, IOW about 100 cu.ft.

 

[Dan]

So it seems this was a "wall dive" that turned into a "50m cave dive". Maybe?

With no information I would assume a wall dive would be a recreational AL80 dive ala Cozumel. Max depth above 100 feet.
How could this have turned into a 50m cave dive? It makes no sense. So there is some information we do not have, or somebody made some really poor decisions.

As a vacation diver I am familiar with the wall dive world. What would be the minimum gear for a cave dive at 50M?

Here is the Google Translate part of the report on the ill-fated rescue:

"....The popular town bell still cries after the 4 divers died in 2012. This time - according to the reconstructions - things would go like this: the end of the excursion the two instructors, Cammardella and Tancredi, they noticed the absence of Anzola ( a close friend of the two divers and certainly not a spring chicken). So they came back to look for him. At that point it is possible that they remained fatally stuck in the dense network of tunnels, the one with plastic image is called 'the intestines of Palinuro. " The two Mauro then they would heroically sacrificed to rescue Silvio...."

 

[fsardone]

So in other words, rather than just tell open water "don't do it", instead start teaching some of the reasons why?

Correct.
Saying do not lean on the door is much less effective than saying leaning on the door while the train is moving is dangerous.

Tell the student that this sport is inherently dangerous and you can manage the risk getting proper training. Before going into cave read Bleprint for survival by Sheck Exley (if you can find it ...) or a more recent book. This will convince you that training is not optional.

 

[gypsyjim]

I am still struggling with the concept of diving to 50m on an 80ci, and THEN entering a cave environment.

That 80ci is minimal for anything exceeding 100', OW, and honestly if you do the math, allows nothing for getting 2 divers to the surface in an emergeny.

Beyond "peeking" into the opening, and thinking "maybe I'll come back someday, bettet prepared..".....

Sad.

 

[Storker]

I am still struggling with the concept of diving to 50m on an 80ci

Like I said, it's unlikely they used Al80s. That's not standard Euro single tanks. 15x200s, 12x232s (both about 100 cu.ft) or 15x232s, OTOH...

 

[gypsyjim]

Not a lot more gas for such a dive, but a little more backup gas than the 80.

 

[boulderjohn]

So what's the solution?

It is education.

So in other words, rather than just tell an open water student, "don't do it", instead start teaching some of the reasons why?

I believe the solution is indeed more education. I was able, after much persuasion, to get PADI to approve a course called "Understanding Overhead Environments." It is an almost exclusively academic class that goes into the full range of overhead environments, showing why they get progressively more dangerous as you go from swimming under the anchor chain to entering a silty cave. It shows why, yes, even a basic OW diver can safely enter some overheads, but others absolutely demand formal training.

 

[BRT]

BRT,
in cave, cold water, overhead, low vis, complex dive I keep my END at 30 meters or below. Clear tropical water ... I dive 50 happily on air.

There is a thread in advanced scuba discussions or technical diving specialties if I recall correctly, dealing with this.

I've read some. I'm no tech diver but I agree with you. Blue tropical water is a little different. But I'm a little amused at the absolutes that are bandied about on this.