Three divers die in a cave accident, Punta Iacco, Palinuro Italy Aug. 2016

[boulderjohn]

If everybody keeps telling you you are an expert and you can do it you end up doing something stupid (resonate with doc deep Andy?).
Also it is difficult to become cave certified in Italy and I believe none of these gentlemen were so certified. Being instructor, owning a dive operation, knowing the area and the caves are all contributing factors.

I have in the past called this the "I'm the best diver I have ever seen" syndrome.

Throughout the world, there are people who do nothing but open water dives and see nothing but open water divers. They might very well be the equal of any diver they have ever seen, and that leads them to believe they are the equal of any diver in existence. The natural conclusion is that they can do the difficult dives that are off limits to "normal" divers. They have no idea of the difference the training they do not have makes, so they don't see it as important.

That is the primary reason I am opposed to the "just say no" attitude toward overhead environments. By that I mean the simple mantra that no one should enter ANY overhead without complete formal training, such as cave certification. Once OW divers get used to ignoring this rule in very simple and safe overheads, they have no guidance to tell them when the overheads really are too dangerous for their skill sets.

 

[Dan]

I've done 180' dives with a single aluminum 80, not much bottom time and a lot of hanging out decompressing for safety. Why would you think rebreather, out of curiosity? I believe 200' was the deepest I went with that config on a wall, with a dive instructor I trusted but wouldn't do it with a random dive buddy.

You are a superman. No issue with narcosis? My LDS tech dive instructor told me that any deep dives, deeper than 150' (46m), will need trimix.

 

[scubadiver888]

I have in the past called this the "I'm the best diver I have ever seen" syndrome.

Throughout the world, there are people who do nothing but open water dives and see nothing but open water divers. They might very well be the equal of any diver they have ever seen, and that leads them to believe they are the equal of any diver in existence. The natural conclusion is that they can do the difficult dives that are off limits to "normal" divers. They have no idea of the difference the training they do not have makes, so they don't see it as important.

That is the primary reason I am opposed to the "just say no" attitude toward overhead environments. By that I mean the simple mantra that no one should enter ANY overhead without complete formal training, such as cave certification. Once OW divers get used to ignoring this rule in very simple and safe overheads, they have no guidance to tell them when the overheads really are too dangerous for their skill sets.

I like this view point. I've learned there are no absolutes in the world. I've seldom seen any situation that is black or white. I have wreck training but there are some times I just don't feel right entering some wrecks. Sometimes it is the same wreck on a different day that I won't enter.

Also, as I learn more I look back and realize sometimes I was lucky. This reminds me that just because it worked out okay once doesn't mean I should do it all the time. I'm always learning. I'm always reflecting on past dives. I keep a journal and review it every once in a while.

 

[KevinNM]

You are a superman. No issue with narcosis? My LDS tech dive instructor told me that any deep dives, deeper than 150' (46m), will need trimix.

It varies, some people are very resistant, at least most days they are. The old air depth records are insane. But so were the death rates.

 

[CuzzA]

I have in the past called this the "I'm the best diver I have ever seen" syndrome.

Throughout the world, there are people who do nothing but open water dives and see nothing but open water divers. They might very well be the equal of any diver they have ever seen, and that leads them to believe they are the equal of any diver in existence. The natural conclusion is that they can do the difficult dives that are off limits to "normal" divers. They have no idea of the difference the training they do not have makes, so they don't see it as important.

That is the primary reason I am opposed to the "just say no" attitude toward overhead environments. By that I mean the simple mantra that no one should enter ANY overhead without complete formal training, such as cave certification. Once OW divers get used to ignoring this rule in very simple and safe overheads, they have no guidance to tell them when the overheads really are too dangerous for their skill sets.

So what's the solution? Or is it just the reality of human nature... It is what it is.

 

[fsardone]

So what's the solution? Or is it just the reality of human nature... It is what it is.

It is education. All divers need to know their limits and learn to manage risk. There should be an article in tech diving magazione issue 22 September 2016 ... covering decision making and risk management.
Fact is education in our sport varies widely, is left to the good will of each of us and people take risks they are not able to fully understand.

 

[BRT]

You are a superman. No issue with narcosis? My LDS tech dive instructor told me that any deep dives, deeper than 150' (46m), will need trimix.

And other experts say only trimix deeper than 100'

 

[fsardone]

BRT,
in cave, cold water, overhead, low vis, complex dive I keep my END at 30 meters or below. Clear tropical water ... I dive 50 happily on air.

There is a thread in advanced scuba discussions or technical diving specialties if I recall correctly, dealing with this.

 

[Dan]

It comes a time for a decision to recover the body rather than to rescue dying diver & endangering your own & your dive buddy's lifes. 1 death, instead of 3. I don't want to win the Darwin Awards for sure.

 

[KeithG]

So it seems this was a "wall dive" that turned into a "50m cave dive". Maybe?

With no information I would assume a wall dive would be a recreational AL80 dive ala Cozumel. Max depth above 100 feet.
How could this have turned into a 50m cave dive? It makes no sense. So there is some information we do not have, or somebody made some really poor decisions.

As a vacation diver I am familiar with the wall dive world. What would be the minimum gear for a cave dive at 50M?