Thoughts on Advanced Open Water / Advanced Adventure

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The "AOW" term by itself as defined by the agency that started this terminology is wrong and misleading to begin with. In early to mid 80's, the term that NAUI used for the course that came after the entry level course, Openwater I, was the "Openwater II" certification. The "Advanced Diver" was a third level up course that was much more intense than what is today known as the "Advanced Openwater" certification. NAUI had to change the names of its courses several years later because it couldn't compete in the market, people wanted more advanced "sounding" certifications. NAUI still required more training and dives in its OW and AOW training however. What makes it worse is the fact that many instructors/dive shops don't add any real skill or knowledge in their AOW courses. Most of the AOW courses taught by other agencies are mere, "come and dive with me" type of courses where the student just follows the instructor on dives with the instructor BS'ing his way through the course. These low level training type of AOW courses and the easiest courses to teach, the student gets to dive with an instructor doing BS stuff over a two day period while paying good money for it but no real training or qualifications imparted on to the student.

Some instructors combine teaching the openwater training for the OW and AOW courses at the same time, same days, and be running two different level courses for two different groups of students with several students in each level on the same openwater training day. I don't know how they can manage to give each student in their respective levels and courses the required attention, real training and proper knowledge for the two different groups of students in two different certification levels on the same day.

NAUI does leave it up to the instructor to require more training in their respective courses today and that's what I do myself. I require 8 - 10 dives to get certified in the entry level course, the NAUI Openwater Scuba Diver, and 8 - 10 dives in the "Advanced Scuba Diver" course. In the AOW course we do 3 - 4 dives to cover each specialty in addition to other skills and training. We do night diving, navigation, boat, deep (to 30m), wreck, rescue skills review (NAUI requires teaching of submerged unconscious non-breathing dive buddy rescue training in its OW course) in openwater training for the AOW certification. The resultant training and skills gained by the students are equivalent to the old more comprehensive training/certification done in several courses. I also require 2 - 3 pool sessions in the AOW course too.
 
Making the classes introductory gives people a taste for the specialty. I know a couple who are PADI OW divers and have said that they will not go on a dive unless a DM leads it. They say: "We paid good money so the DM can watch out ("babysit") for us." That's the mentality of vacation divers. They are not going to waste their money on improving skills because the value/cost ratio is not there.

Unfortunately, that is the mindset and trend for many people, divers and instructors, I have been seeing over the last 3 or so decades.
 
The "AOW" term by itself as defined by the agency that started this terminology is wrong and misleading to begin with. In early to mid 80's, the term that NAUI used for the course that came after the entry level course, Openwater I, was the "Openwater II" certification. The "Advanced Diver" was a third level up course that was much more intense than what is today known as the "Advanced Openwater" certification. NAUI had to change the names of its courses several years later because it couldn't compete in the market, people wanted more advanced "sounding" certifications. NAUI still required more training and dives in its OW and AOW training however. What makes it worse is the fact that many instructors/dive shops don't add any real skill or knowledge in their AOW courses. Most of the AOW courses taught by other agencies are mere, "come and dive with me" type of courses where the student just follows the instructor on dives with the instructor BS'ing his way through the course. These low level training type of AOW courses and the easiest courses to teach, the student gets to dive with an instructor doing BS stuff over a two day period while paying good money for it but no real training or qualifications imparted on to the student. Some instructors combine teaching the openwater training for the OW and AOW courses at the same time, same days, and be running two different level courses with several students in each level on the same openwater training day. I don't know how they can manage to give each student in their respective levels and courses the required attention, real training and proper knowledge to two groups of students in two different certification levels on the same day.

NAUI does leave it up to the instructor to require more training in their respective courses today and that's what I do myself. I require 8 - 10 dives to get certified in the entry level course, the NAUI Openwater Scuba Diver, and 8 - 10 dives in the "Advanced Scuba Diver" course. In the AOW course we do 3 - 4 dives to cover each specialty in addition to other skills and training. We do night diving, navigation, boat, deep (to 30m), wreck, rescue skills review (NAUI requires teaching of submerged unconscious non-breathing dive buddy rescue training in its OW course) in openwater training for the AOW certification. The resultant training and skills gained by the students are equivalent to the old more comprehensive training/certification done in several courses. I also require 2 - 3 pool sessions in the AOW course too.
Agree and disagree. AOW is a poor title for the course and cert. since it gives the impression that one is advanced.
OTOH, I think I got SOME real training taking it--using compass to locate object on the S&R dive, or navigating a square. Or properly signaling at night with a dive light. Not rocket science, but it was something.
 
Agree and disagree. AOW is a poor title for the course and cert. since it gives the impression that one is advanced.
OTOH, I think I got SOME real training taking it--using compass to locate object on the S&R dive, or navigating a square. Or properly signaling at night with a dive light. Not rocket science, but it was something.

I am not disputing the content as much as the name and what it implies. If they called it "OWII" or "OW+," it may have been much better but "Advanced," I don't think so.
 
Advanced Open Water. Advanced!!! ROTFL.... oooh, it hurts, please stop...

It isn't. It's an embarrassment to the industry. It's advanced as in a first grader goes to second grade (i.e. 5 year old to the next year). When compared with developed skills it's anything but advanced.

The problem with calling it "Advanced" OW is people who know nothing actually believe the hype. This could well be dangerous as you're implying that they're better than they are. It should be called "More OW", "Additional OW" or "OW part 2", not Advanced as it just isn't.

OK, my real issue is 9 years ago when I did my OW and then AOW in warm, calm clear seas in utterly benign conditions on holiday. I fell for the hype and utterly embarrassed myself explaining that with 36 dives I was good and "advanced" to dive in UK waters. My toes curl and my buttocks clench at the utter embarrassment I still feel from that exchange. What a crash down to earth it was suddenly diving in cold, dark, tidal waters with a 10 feet (3m) visibility.

Now, with 650+ dives in all sorts of conditions with different equipment, solo, deep and way outside of Recreational diving I still wouldn't dare call myself an Advanced Diver.

The more I dive, the more I know I don't know and the more I know I need to improve.


Of course this also begs the question as to what a DiveMASTER is. How can someone who knows nothing of decompression diving, has mediocre core skills (finning especially), mixed gases, accelerated deco, dive planning, no redundancy and no solo diving ever call themselves a DiveMASTER? Starting that course with 50 dives under their belt..! It's akin to a lake dinghy sailor comparing themselves to someone who sails across oceans.
 
I am not disputing the content as much as the name and what it implies. If they called it "OWII" or "OW+," it may have been much better but "Advanced," I don't think so.
Agree.
 
Advanced Open Water. Advanced!!! ROTFL.... oooh, it hurts, please stop...

It isn't. It's an embarrassment to the industry. It's advanced as in a first grader goes to second grade (i.e. 5 year old to the next year). When compared with developed skills it's anything but advanced.

The problem with calling it "Advanced" OW is people who know nothing actually believe the hype. This could well be dangerous as you're implying that they're better than they are. It should be called "More OW", "Additional OW" or "OW part 2", not Advanced as it just isn't.

OK, my real issue is 9 years ago when I did my OW and then AOW in warm, calm clear seas in utterly benign conditions on holiday. I fell for the hype and utterly embarrassed myself explaining that with 36 dives I was good and "advanced" to dive in UK waters. My toes curl and my buttocks clench at the utter embarrassment I still feel from that exchange. What a crash down to earth it was suddenly diving in cold, dark, tidal waters with a 10 feet (3m) visibility.

Now, with 650+ dives in all sorts of conditions with different equipment, solo, deep and way outside of Recreational diving I still wouldn't dare call myself an Advanced Diver.

The more I dive, the more I know I don't know and the more I know I need to improve.


Of course this also begs the question as to what a DiveMASTER is. How can someone who knows nothing of decompression diving, has mediocre core skills (finning especially), mixed gases, accelerated deco, dive planning, no redundancy and no solo diving ever call themselves a DiveMASTER? Starting that course with 50 dives under their belt..! It's akin to a lake dinghy sailor comparing themselves to someone who sails across oceans.
I agree about it being an awful term because some actually think they are advanced. I took mine after 10 dives (including my 4 OW checkout dives). But, I have no sympathy for someone like that (or someone with considerably more experience in some cases) thinking they are really "advanced". Then again, some folks will believe anything (not to get into recent politics....).
Likewise, Divemaster is just a title. To me it doesn't mean you are some sort of a Master of diving. It means you can officially lead dives and assist with courses, etc. Same goes of course and even more so for the dreaded Master Scuba Diver.
 
Worst are those combined both OW and Adv together in one go!
I had met an Adv diver who could not clear her mask and I have to demonstrate it under water.
Ask any experienced dive guide and they have plenty of stories to tell about 'Adv" diver!

The course is good and could be better but definitely need to set a higher entry requirement surely not right after OW course.
 
Worst are those combined both OW and Adv together in one go!
I had met an Adv diver who could not clear her mask and I have to demonstrate it under water.
Ask any experienced dive guide and they have plenty of stories to tell about 'Adv" diver!

The course is good and could be better but definitely need to set a higher entry requirement surely not right after OW course.
Agree. But of course she who could not clear her mask shouldn't have made it out of OW course.
 
Maybe the diving community sould stop playing PADI's marketing game and refers to AOW as Additional OW and DiveLeader, for master they are not.
 

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