Silverback
Contributor
JamesP:
OUCH..
Any chance you could PM those stats that Cliff sent you. I'd be interested in knowing.
This dive was a 10+
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OUCH..
Any chance you could PM those stats that Cliff sent you. I'd be interested in knowing.
JamesP
Contributor
MikeFerrara:
I answered this in the two questions posted to Silverback above. Not having gas is the worst thing that can happen underwater.
JamesP
Contributor
Silverback:
I thought you would like that one. I will pm the stats to you if Cliff decides not to post it public. I have to get to work. I will catch on this later. I only need 4 more posts to apply for my avatar.
Limestone Diver
Guest
I've got to keep this short but I will post more details later.
First-- I am a Poseidon Tech.
Second-- all of the info I'm giving comes from the Poseidon Dealer books.
Third: I dive Poseidons and have never had a no-air malfunction. I have had problems-- but it was usually caused by my lack of maintenace on my own gear. I seems the last set of regs to get serviced are my own.
"The less complicated the better. With these guidelines we have developed near genius solutions to difficult technical problems. Out from the function comes design, where our own development department always tries to eliminate the unnecessary, the possible sources of error."-- where have I heard that before-- it's in the Poseidon Catalog,
I'll only deal with the technical specs for the common Poseidon regs -the Cyklon 5000 first stage with Jetstream or Cyklon seconds. The new X-stream is a departure from conventional design- and should be looked at in person.
"The first regulator in the world with only one hose and the demand valve situated at the mouth, this was presented in 1958 and set a new world standard for diving regulators."-- this was the Cyklon. The cyklon is a downstream reg- and will free flow if the IP goes above specs. It will not fail in the closed position. It is the reg that looks like a hockey puck stuck onto a film canister.
The other second stage you will see allot is the Jetstream- it looks like the starship enterprise. yes it is a upstream design (pilot valve) reg-- but it will not lock shut. The reg comes equiped with a special hose that has a over pressure relief valve built into the end of the hose. The reg is designed so it will only work with this hose. You might see jetstream users tug on thier regs and have a blast of bubbles come from the end of the reg-- this is a test to see if the opv is working. If the IP goes beyond factory limits the opv dumps air causing a lowering of the volume of gass in the hose allowing the reg to still work. The nice thing is you don't have to endure the HP air coming out the mouthpiece like you would a conventional second stage.
The cyklon 5000 first stage is also equipped with a OPV- this allows any excess air to escape preventing a high IP in the case of a first stage freezing up or a HP seat failing.
"the construction of the reducing valve will release the excess pressure into the water via the opv. " "in all cases it is posible to breathe from the second stage."
On a practical note-
I have run jetsteams, G250's and Tx100's from my Cyklon 5000's. In all cases I have never had a No-Gass situation. As a test I just set up my jetstream on a Apex first stage with a bad seat. And even as the IP reached 280-300 psi the reg still worked. When the OPV kicked in it still worked-- mind you the rest of the shop thought I had lost it. Except for the air coming out of the hose opv- I really could not feel a difference in breathability. I'll have to try this test in 80ft next time--- perhaps down south. yah----I now have the excuse for my next trip
Cliff
Limestone Dive Centre
First-- I am a Poseidon Tech.
Second-- all of the info I'm giving comes from the Poseidon Dealer books.
Third: I dive Poseidons and have never had a no-air malfunction. I have had problems-- but it was usually caused by my lack of maintenace on my own gear. I seems the last set of regs to get serviced are my own.
"The less complicated the better. With these guidelines we have developed near genius solutions to difficult technical problems. Out from the function comes design, where our own development department always tries to eliminate the unnecessary, the possible sources of error."-- where have I heard that before-- it's in the Poseidon Catalog,
I'll only deal with the technical specs for the common Poseidon regs -the Cyklon 5000 first stage with Jetstream or Cyklon seconds. The new X-stream is a departure from conventional design- and should be looked at in person.
"The first regulator in the world with only one hose and the demand valve situated at the mouth, this was presented in 1958 and set a new world standard for diving regulators."-- this was the Cyklon. The cyklon is a downstream reg- and will free flow if the IP goes above specs. It will not fail in the closed position. It is the reg that looks like a hockey puck stuck onto a film canister.
The other second stage you will see allot is the Jetstream- it looks like the starship enterprise. yes it is a upstream design (pilot valve) reg-- but it will not lock shut. The reg comes equiped with a special hose that has a over pressure relief valve built into the end of the hose. The reg is designed so it will only work with this hose. You might see jetstream users tug on thier regs and have a blast of bubbles come from the end of the reg-- this is a test to see if the opv is working. If the IP goes beyond factory limits the opv dumps air causing a lowering of the volume of gass in the hose allowing the reg to still work. The nice thing is you don't have to endure the HP air coming out the mouthpiece like you would a conventional second stage.
The cyklon 5000 first stage is also equipped with a OPV- this allows any excess air to escape preventing a high IP in the case of a first stage freezing up or a HP seat failing.
"the construction of the reducing valve will release the excess pressure into the water via the opv. " "in all cases it is posible to breathe from the second stage."
On a practical note-
I have run jetsteams, G250's and Tx100's from my Cyklon 5000's. In all cases I have never had a No-Gass situation. As a test I just set up my jetstream on a Apex first stage with a bad seat. And even as the IP reached 280-300 psi the reg still worked. When the OPV kicked in it still worked-- mind you the rest of the shop thought I had lost it. Except for the air coming out of the hose opv- I really could not feel a difference in breathability. I'll have to try this test in 80ft next time--- perhaps down south. yah----I now have the excuse for my next trip
Cliff
Limestone Dive Centre
Well put Cliff. Same as in my service manual.
I used to dive Poseidons but I switched to SP's because of the Jetstream throwing Ice Chips in cold water! Many of my friends still do and have no problems.
The simple way to put this is if you don't like poseidon's don't use them. If you don't like people who dive with them, don't dive with them. The same can be said about rebreathers.
I used to dive Poseidons but I switched to SP's because of the Jetstream throwing Ice Chips in cold water! Many of my friends still do and have no problems.
The simple way to put this is if you don't like poseidon's don't use them. If you don't like people who dive with them, don't dive with them. The same can be said about rebreathers.
Thanks Cliff.
Kevin R
Guest
Limestone Diver:
Several years ago my budy and I dove Jetstreams. My personal experience is that the donut style is prone to early failure which, I believe, is why poseidon integrated an OPRV into the newer 1st stage design. I had this failure happen only 2 months after servicing at one point. This can also make servicing difficult in that several seats are sometimes required to make the i/p lock up and stop creeping. Oceanic also had a 1st stage with the same style seat and the same problems with that seat.
On our last dive with these regs, my buddy had a 2nd stage lock up completely and stop delivering gas. When we exited the water, we determined that the I/P was still holding, but we weren't able to disassemble the 2nd stage until we returned home. By the time we looked at it, the second stage was working properly again. This was the last time either of us dove poseidons again.
Kevin R
Guest
Silverback:
Yes, but when you are doing your bubble check and you discover that the hose ferrule is leaking with no evidence of wear, you cannot simply throw a stock hose on a cyclon, so you are now carrying a special hose around just for one reg. Also, try acessing the inhalation diaphram on one. I don't think you'll get far with that circlip missing.
It's easy to use one small aspect of DIR, such as being able to acess the diaphram on a reg, to justify an equipment choice, but this style of diving requires looking at the big picture and choosing a piece of gear that holds as few points of failure as possible. For example, I carry very few hoses or parts as spares when we are on trips and I can cover all of our teams regs if there is an unexpected failure.
I agree the Poseidons are a good breathing reg, but there are many others out there with far fewer failure points that breathe equally well.
Unfortunately, I cannot comment on the X-streams as I have not taken a close look at one yet.
JamesP
Contributor
Diver Joe:
Joe
It just seems that all the wrong people are using the word for all the wrong reasons. We see it used most frequently and verbosely by other folks.
JamesP
Contributor
DPVDiver:
Hi DVP
I am wondering how much gas do you have available once you switch to open circuit? What is the size of the dilutent bottle? What do you do with an out of gas diver?
THe RB80 can also be switched to open circuit but I have never seen one used with anything less then twin 40's and the diver still carries a stage for safety. He also has the means to donate a long hose to an out of gas diver.
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