Things you learn from DM

[Diver0001]

Herr Diver0001, you can dive a "hogarthian" rig together with a snorkel simply by substituting one of your 40 inch deco reg hoses for your 7 ft cave hose. As long as you are not going into a cave, you do not need a hose longer than 40 inches.

And if you are not going into a cave, it is silly to wear a hose longer than 40 inches.

That way, with a 40 inch hose as your primary, you won't strip off your mask by entangling it on your snorkel when and if you need to donate your primary. And then you will be a safe diver, with a snorkel with you at all times, unless you are diving into a cave.

The snorkel goes where it should be, in my pocket. Problem solved. I don't like fitting round pegs into square holes.

As for the long hose; I'm not actually interested in debating the pros/cons of it. Maybe someone else feels like it. I'll just say it's a choice and it suits me. It's not for everyone and I would agree if you insist on wearing a snorkel that you shouldn't have the hose around your neck....

R..

 

[David Evans]

I teach OW using a hogarthian rig - 5 foot primary, and a necklace. I teach OW using a BP/W configuration as well.

That's how I dive, and I don't see any sense in teaching people otherwise. My objective when I teach is to help people become divers that I'd be pleased to have as my buddy. Why would I teach using a substandard configuration with this as my objective?

As for my snorkel - I keep it in my garage, along with my wrist slate and my pistol-grip light on a coil lanyard.

As for the subject of this thread, I had about 300 dives when I started my DM. I'm now a NAUI and SSI instructor. For me, this was a good number of dives, as it was at this point that I felt confident enough in my skills to be able to demonstrate them to new divers. YMMV, depending on ability. I probably took significantly longer than some others to reach this point in my diving career, but I don't think there's a magic number. I certainly wouldn't think that anything less than 100 dives in a variety of settings would make for a good DM candidate, but that's just my opinion - take it for what it's worth, which ain't much.

This much I can say in agreement with a previous poster: if you have to even think about your diving when you are leading a dive, you're not ready to be a divemaster. Acting in a professional capacity with divers underwater involves being so tuned into the divers you are leading that you shouldn't even be having to think about your own trim, buoyancy, and other stuff like that. If you're not at that stage yet, you're probably not ready to begin a DM program... at least if your ambitions are professional in nature.

The comments regarding use of a 40" hose in place of a long hose are the comments made by someone who clearly doesn't understand the benefits of a long hose... or perhaps by someone who sees the benefits of a snorkel strapped to his mask 60 feet underwater....

-d

 

[IndigoBlue]

The snorkel goes where it should be, in my pocket. Problem solved. I don't like fitting round pegs into square holes.

As for the long hose; I'm not actually interested in debating the pros/cons of it. Maybe someone else feels like it. I'll just say it's a choice and it suits me. It's not for everyone and I would agree if you insist on wearing a snorkel that you shouldn't have the hose around your neck....

R..

I definitely agree with you this much: if youre wrapped in a seven foot hose, your snorkel should be in your cargo pocket. Especially since a snorkel would not do much good on a cave dive; as similarly, a 7 foot hose would do little good on a non-cave dive.

As for these jonny-come-latelys who are still peddling 5 foot hoses, I hope their 5 foot hoses become a warning sign for everyone out there to beware and steer clear. (edited by moderator due to insulting language).

 

[David Evans]

Indigo - length of the long hose should be determined by the size of the person and the type of rig they dive. Proper routing of a 7' hose is under a canister light... most new divers don't have a canister light. In this case, a 5' hose is a better choice for a smaller person and a 6' hose is better for a bigger person, with any excess either tucked into the webbing or under a waist mounted cutting tool (for those that don't have a can light).

As for your insistence that 5' hoses should be a warning sign, like a dunce cap, I would simply echo your comments regarding use of a short hose (and I include 40" in that assessment).

Routing a 40" hose as a primary is usually done under the arm, and involves the use of a swivel on the mount to a second stage. This introduces three potential failure points, and the routing is not optimal for quickly clearing the hose when air sharing.

A properly routed long hose is easy to donate and incredibly streamlined.

-d

 

[IndigoBlue]

Indigo - length of the long hose should be determined by the size of the person and the type of rig they dive. Proper routing of a 7' hose is under a canister light... most new divers don't have a canister light. In this case, a 5' hose is a better choice for a smaller person and a 6' hose is better for a bigger person, with any excess either tucked into the webbing or under a waist mounted cutting tool (for those that don't have a can light).

As for your insistence that 5' hoses should be a warning sign, like a dunce cap, I would simply echo your comments regarding use of a short hose (and I include 40" in that assessment).

Routing a 40" hose as a primary is usually done under the arm, and involves the use of a swivel on the mount to a second stage. This introduces three potential failure points, and the routing is not optimal for quickly clearing the hose when air sharing.

A properly routed long hose is easy to donate and incredibly streamlined.

-d

Evans, I want you to wear your 5 ft hose. (edited by moderator, due to insulting language). Keep up the good work.

By a strange coincidence, you happened to be right about one small thing: that a diver only needs a 7 ft hose when he/she also happens to be wearing a can light.

But that is where your entire shortcut to thinking breaks down, simply because (edited by moderator due to insulting language).

 

[FreeFloat]

Evans, I want you to wear your 5 ft hose. (edited by moderator, due to insulting language). Keep up the good work.

By a strange coincidence, you happened to be right about one small thing: that a diver only needs a 7 ft hose when he/she also happens to be wearing a can light.

But that is where your entire shortcut to thinking breaks down, simply because there is no sane reason on this earth for having any long hose without a cannister light, read CAVE.

I disagree with you.

When I was building up my regset with long hoses, I pondered the difference between 5', 6' and 7' hoses. I had some well meaning advice that since I'm such a short person myself, I ought to have no use for anything longer than a 5' hose. (FWIW I stand 5'2" tall on dry land)

But then I thought: this isn't my hose or my reg; it's for my buddy. What if he's taller than I am.

I'll grant you that the length of the actual hose makes much more difference when divers are forced to travel in single file such as through a restriction. In my case, I've gotten kind of sick of buying almost the right gear. Heck, if I'm going to have to replace it again in a year or two just to standardize my gear, I might as well do it the right way from the outset, right?

Besides, sometimes even in Open Water during air share drills it hardly feels like there's enough hose there. I can hardly imagine how restrictive a 5' hose could be.

I did buy my 7' hose before my can light by about 25 dives - all I did with the excess loop of 7' hose was tuck it into my waist belt. Still pulled out very quickly when deployed.

A 40" hose might scare me now...................

 

[David Evans]

Indigo, if you wanna get nasty with this, I'm out. I don't have time for personal insults on an internet forum. Waste of my time. Thanks, but I'd rather go diving.

As for me being a "non-thinking" diver - I carry instructor certs from SSI and NAUI, and cave certs from NACD and GUE. However, carrying a pocket full of cards doesn't make one a good diver.

Neither does figuring out how to use an internet forum.

If the best you got is telling people who use a long hose is "dunce cap" and "non-thinking", then I'd encourage the gentle readers of this forum to consider the source of information when evaluating their choices.

I'll simply leave it at this: it is my opinion that a long hose is a vastly superior configuration to a short hose. If any of you would like me to rationalize this opinion, please PM me and I will be happy to do so in a calm and reasonable manner that hopefully will help you in making up your mind, based on what experience I have.

But as has been said, repeatedly, you can't learn to dive on the internet... I would strongly encourage any of you reading this to throw the opinions you see here out the window and talk to someone you know, respect, and trust.

-"Evans"

 

[Kim]

Removed due to a personal request from party involved.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Indigo, if you wanna get nasty with this, I'm out.

Actually, if there's any more nastiness, the person tossing the insults is out, not the person trying to engage in civil converse.

All parties, take heed ... disagree as you wish, but keep it civil.

I.B. I have edited some of your latest posts in this thread ... please try to make your point without the insulting language.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Do not scuba dive in a thick wetsuit. Eight little words. That should be crystal clear to anyone in Massachusetts.

Is that better?

Not really ... perhaps it would be better if you explained your rationale.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)