Things Scuba Instructors teach that are either bad or just wrong.

[SlugLife]

Diver error is too often cited as the reason for a problem in a way that dismisses alternative solutions. A common (and silly) phrase is that some piece of gear is "an equipment solution to a training problem." That kind of thinking precludes valuable innovation.

.... Seeing how easy it is for a diver to have that alternate come loose without the diver being aware of it, it makes sense to discard the "diver error" argument and look for an equipment solution. The obvious one is the bungeed necklace for the alternate. Because it is not meant to come off easily, it does not come off easily, and it is right there where it is supposed to be in the event it is needed.

This is an interesting topic from two angles:

1. Making standard scuba-equipment less prone to user-error as an industry.
2. Adjusting your own equipment, to reduce your own user-error.

There are many such solutions out there, such as bungied-necklaces, silicone-necklaces, and various retainers with clips, hose-clips, and DIY breakaway bolt snap. I can actually write out the list, and link to such products if somebody wants the list. (just ask)

Something I noticed, is that my OW online-materials and instructor never told me about using regulator-retainers of any kind. We were shown tucking the octo-hose in a pocket. We were shown the arm-sweep technique for searching for a free-floating or dangling regulator-hose. However, it never occurred to me until about 2 years into scuba, that such clips/necklaces/etc even existed, when I had some mild difficulty finding my octo during a dive, and was determined to address that problem.

I also learned about some DIY style necklaces & breakaway clips from SideMounting.com, although those materials aren't your average boring PADI/SSI/etc online instruction materials.

 

[Wibble]

This is an interesting topic from two angles:

1. Making standard scuba-equipment less prone to user-error as an industry.
2. Adjusting your own equipment, to reduce your own user-error.

There are many such solutions out there, such as bungied-necklaces, silicone-necklaces, and various retainers with clips, hose-clips, and DIY breakaway bolt snap. I can actually write out the list, and link to such products if somebody wants the list. (just ask)

Something I noticed, is that my OW online-materials and instructor never told me about using regulator-retainers of any kind. We were shown tucking the octo-hose in a pocket. We were shown the arm-sweep technique for searching for a free-floating or dangling regulator-hose. However, it never occurred to me until about 2 years into scuba, that such clips/necklaces/etc even existed, when I had some mild difficulty finding my octo during a dive, and was determined to address that problem.

I also learned about some DIY style necklaces & breakaway clips from SideMounting.com, although those materials aren't your average boring PADI/SSI/etc online instruction materials.

Which is why that recreational configuration is just bad, especially when compared with a longhose and bungeed necklaced backup.

Have memories of my Open Water training over a decade ago where I was really surprised at the "Octopus" stowage (fold it up and stuff it in whatever clip or pocket you can) and all that sweeping malarkey. Constantly saw divers where their Octopus was out and dragging along the bottom which cannot be good for the regulator nor the diver.

The longhose + necklace does not suffer from this and is entirely a better solution which, IMHO, should be the standard configuration from day one, but using the shorter 150cm/5ft longhose.

 

[SlugLife]

Which is why that recreational configuration is just bad, especially when compared with a longhose and bungeed necklaced backup.

Have memories of my Open Water training over a decade ago where I was really surprised at the "Octopus" stowage (fold it up and stuff it in whatever clip or pocket you can) and all that sweeping malarkey. Constantly saw divers where their Octopus was out and dragging along the bottom which cannot be good for the regulator nor the diver.

The longhose + necklace does not suffer from this and is entirely a better solution which, IMHO, should be the standard configuration from day one, but using the shorter 150cm/5ft longhose.

Aside from simply dragging through the muck, the real problem is it's a giant safety hazard.

My own experience: I had a regulator hose come loose during a dive, and I went to switch to my octo. After searching for about 10 seconds, bubbles in my face, unable to find the octo, I decided it was better to go for the surface (less than 30ft deep) than continue wasting time looking for my octo. Soon after I started practicing random "find my octo blind" drills, and they would regularly take about 20 seconds, sometimes longer or shorter, but not RELIABLE. That was unacceptable. Part of the problem was lack-of-practice, and the other part was not having my regulators reliably stashed.

I fairly quickly discovered necklakces/retainers/etc soon after, and was able to make it reliable fairly quick. Later I switched to Sidemount, and my current setup is left on a necklace, right on a breakway-clip on my chest-d-ring. These days it's a reliable 1-5 seconds for either regulator.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I wonder how many recreational agency instructors would refuse to allow primary donate/bungeed second configuration in OW since it’s not considered “proper” by the book in current training?
It would make the regulator sweep kind of silly and the “triangle” would no longer be relevant.

 

[boulderjohn]

I wonder how many recreational agency instructors would refuse to allow primary donate/bungeed second configuration in OW since it’s not considered “proper” by the book in current training?
It would make the regulator sweep kind of silly and the “triangle” would no longer be relevant.

What agency does not consider it proper?

As a PADI instructor, I know their standards are written generically and will allow any method to be taught within standards. The specific method taught is up to the instructor.

What defines what you teach primarily is what equipment is being used by the students. When I instructed OW classes, I taught students with the traditional setup because that is what they used for the class. I could justify that because I knew that when they went out from there and rented equipment, that is what they would rent. I told them about other options that were available and gave the pros and cons of each. I showed them my bungeed setup and explained why I preferred it.

I will, however, agree that many instructors assume that the way they were taught is the way PADI wants it taught. I ran into that with teaching students while neutrally buoyant. A look back a decade ago on ScubaBoard threads will show what I mean. Even though we had direct quotes from people at PADI headquarters stating in no uncertain terms that there was no standard prohibiting teaching students while neutral and in trim from the very first minutes in the pool, we had instructors insisting that introducing neutral buoyancy then was a standards violation that would get you expelled. Andy Davis (DevonDiver) made it his mission for a while to convince all PADI instructors that they would be immediately expelled by PADI if they taught neutrally, the way PADI showed them to do it in the professional journal, the Undersea Journal.

 

[NorCalDM]

I wonder how many recreational agency instructors would refuse to allow primary donate/bungeed second configuration in OW since it’s not considered “proper” by the book in current training?
It would make the regulator sweep kind of silly and the “triangle” would no longer be relevant.

I personally don't know any that would refuse as serval of us teach in this configuration. We teach both primary and secondary donate because the shop rental gear has Air2's and octopus set ups. The PADI Instructor Manual just states alternate air source with no mention of primary or secondary donation so it is up to the instructor. Also the bungeed second is in the triangle.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Previous to Covid and in the last year as a PADI instructor, I distinctly remember an article in the PADI quarterly journal discussing the two options. Both were approved. You could teach one or the other or both. The student needed to master one.

SSI has supported primary donate from at least when I first started diving (and probably far earlier than that).

I think the issue with instructors who have incorrect assumptions is that they don't read training updates and they don't talk to their training reps at HQ of their respective agency.

Regardless of agency, instructors should have a conversation with their respective HQ about how they structure their classes. It can lead to helpful suggestions as well as catch potential problems.

 

[boulderjohn]

I was taught with the traditional alternate, and that is how I was trained in my instructor course. I never saw a primary donate (Air II) system until I was assigned to do the OOA OW drill in my Instructor Examination. We had all done our debriefings in the parking lot before putting on our gear, and then we got dressed in the gloom of Homestead Crater in Utah. When I had to have the "students" do the OOA drill, one of them pulled the regulator out of his mouth and gave to the buddy. "What the heck is this?" I thought. I was unsure what to do at first, and then I saw everything was fine. I do wish that when we had our briefings in the parking lot, the guy with the AIR II had mentioned that he would be using an uncommon methodology so I was not seeing it for the first time when it happened.

The point of that anecdote is that way back then, primary donate was perfectly fine with PADI. I was faulted for being surprised by it, and I in turn fault my Course Director (although I did not ever tell him) for not preparing me for it.

 

[SlugLife]

I wonder how many recreational agency instructors would refuse to allow primary donate/bungeed second configuration in OW since it’s not considered “proper” by the book in current training?
It would make the regulator sweep kind of silly and the “triangle” would no longer be relevant.

To my knowledge primary-donate has been the standard/preferred method that is taught in beginner OW courses. Setting aside any changes due to a "virus of unknown origin." OW course also tend to use rental/shop gear, and students come in with (usually) zero experience. So, almost no student will come into a course with a bungied-necklace, unless the shop or instructor sets up the student that way.

The sweep is probably a decent skill to teach though. For example, I've had regulators slip out of a retainer, or a breakway-clip happens to breakway, leaving the regulator dangling. You can also couple that training with "for safety reasons, it's good to always have your regulators retained where you can find them, and here's a suggested retainer to get you started."

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Ok, well great! I’m actually glad I was corrected because primary share is superior IMO.
I’m glad to hear that instructors can teach primary donate. For some reason I thought they were stuck doing the regular octo method. But then yes, I was reminded of the Air2 and in fact a DM that was assisting with our OW class in 1998 had one. I bought one too when I purchased my first gear and a few years later sold it.
A quick story about an Air2 air share gone bad.
So, my buddy and I were doing an air share and emergency ascent during a rescue class. It was my turn to be the OOA diver so I signaled him the throat slice and he hands me his primary, which BTW was on a 32” hose and way to short, but whatever. So I thought we were heading up and all of a sudden he bolts to the surface from 30’ ripping his shared second stage out of my mouth.
I switch back to my own reg and go up to see WTH happened? Turns out he grabbed his snorkel instead of his Air2 and got a mouth and wind pipe full of water!
He was coughing and sputtering for a while. When he calmed down we went back down and did it again. That was kind of an eye opener for me. What if it was for real at 100’?