Thermalution Battery Powered, Heated Undershirt: A Product Review

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I'm just going to start making the stuff myself.

When? I dunno. But I'm tired of giving my ideas away for free to companies like BARE, SiTech, DUI, and more. I am ready to build my own gear. :)
Well let me know when you do as that will be the year that my Christmas tree has all the branches sawn off up to five feet off the floor so I can stuff all the Drysuit presents underneath it!!!
 
@Deep South Divers, thanks for the feedback. I just bought a Thermalution today, it only needs to last until you're selling one. Let me know if you need real world testers.

What brand and make do you recommend for dry suits?
 
Don't get me wrong... Thermalutions are great. There's a certain sense of satisfaction that you get when you click it on and it beats back the cold... Like a heated blanket on a cold, snowy night, only better because it's happening in the water while you're diving. The best part is - it warms both the water inside the wetsuit and your core... So it's effect is felt long after you turn it off... Which is good, because you've only got a couple of hours of power, assuming that you charged it to 100% before your dive. Between a thicker wetsuit without a Thermalution and a thinner one with, I'd choose the thinner one with every time.

...Which is a good synopsis of its strong and weak points. Yes, it does a nice job of making the water feel ten or twenty degrees warmer than it really is... But for a limited time, and depending on the unit to work properly. It makes a great recreational tool, but I don't think I'd want to stake my life on it for any sort of overhead (cave, wreck, deep) diving.

...Which is a simple way to say that the idea is fantastically futuristic and revolutionary and absolutely the coolest thing at the dive site. But at the same time, I see lots of room for improvement. Meanwhile, drysuits have been the recipients of the latest tech, and they're getting really good these days; which is a good thing... Because being dry while diving, donning, and doffing is something that a wetsuit simply can't do... Even if "cold" isn't really the issue.

To answer your question directly: I've been working with SiTech and BARE to test and develop a new drysuit called a Sentry. Both companies have forbidden me to talk about it, and just saying the name may be a violation of my contract. For what it's worth, I wanted to call it a "Rebel," which stays consistent with my Southern roots and company name; but with all the leftists out there these days, I suppose they figured that it'd offend somebody. :) To me, that'd be a good thing, since those people probably never make it out of their mother's basement anyway - but my colors are showing. I'll try not to get sidetracked with politics. :)

The new suit's main features include a unique fabric that has the characteristics that I talk about above. It is made slimmer than other drysuits and is svelte and very streamlined and very stretchy - which allows the diver to dive with much less air in it than a normal trilaminate drysuit. It dives more like a wetsuit than a drysuit... But rest assured, you're dry inside... Which makes donning and doffing in cold air a sincere pleasure.

The suit still has to be altered and/or the features carefully chosen to be all that it can be - they did not take every suggestion that I gave them, even though I insisted. But the base suit itself is nothing shy of outstanding... And that's a great start.

They say it'll be out soon... But they've been saying that for months. I have no idea when they'll release it to the public. When they do, I'll be able to make my videos of it public; meanwhile, I'm not allowed to share them in the interest of corporate secrecy.

Companies like DUI and SANTI have made their awesome reputations based on customizability - to include colors and custom tailoring. While I agree that this is a great thing for the hardcore cave explorer that wants everything a certain way, the problem is that most divers purchasing a drysuit can be pretty overwhelmed with the options. Say you decide to get some thigh pockets, for example... Should you choose zipper or Velcro pockets? Big ones or little ones? If you decide to get wrist seal rings so that you can change them in the field, should you pick the round ones or the oval ones? Maybe you'll want some aftermarket ones that the factory doesn't offer in a stock suit... And is silicone better than latex for seals? Everyone seems to like the silicone, but a lot of people argue that they're not as durable. What to do?

I have talked at length with BARE about offering a suit that comes standard with a great fit and all of the modern features that have really improved drysuits over the past few years (including heavy-duty silicone seals, plastic zippers, no Velcro anything, oval wrist rings with no seals in them at all, and nitrile drygloves). Rather than relying so heavily on the purchaser - who, frankly, probably has never dived a drysuit, yet is plunking down thousands of dollars on decisions that they're not totally sure about - BARE should offer as standard exactly what the best combination is. Starting with a stretchy, durable fabric is the first key to that formula... So that a great fit is achieved without having to resort to expensive, time-consuming, and committal custom tailoring that prevents them from ever being able to resell the suit. I mean - most people buy an off-the-shelf wetsuit in one of 15 or 20 different sizes and get a great fit... Why can't that be done with a drysuit, whose design is more forgiving anyway? I could talk a lot about that, but I'll move on to make my point:

Essentially, I'd like to see them offer a drysuit that's a Mercedes-Benz... It simply comes with all the good stuff already on it, and thus doesn't get complicated during the purchase. The best part of that is this: Economies of Scale. The price should fall simply because they're all made the same. From a manufacturing standpoint, this idea is revolutionary and prices can fall considerably while maintaining excellent quality due to the consistency of manufacture... While maintaining good profit margins for the company. Sure, you can still customize it - either before or after the purchase - but out of the box it's so good that you're going to be happy whether it's customized or not.

...Which is all a very long way to say, "Watch BARE," but I'm not entirely convinced that they'll take all of my suggestions. We'll see.
 
I love this drysuit idea, but I am actually more interested in the idea of the wetsuit with the thermolution type heating material built in already and a hot swappable battery (which I assume attaches to your harness waist strap and just plugs into the suit from outside). As an occasional cold water diver who will be travelling to cold water, this seems like a much better option for me.

Care to share anything? :)
 
Sure! I don't mind; I learned long ago that companies don't succeed by keeping secrets... They succeed by serving their clients better than their competition every day, day in and day out. Secrets are an illusion and can help with some short-term profits only; long-term, secrets aren't reliable and don't really matter.

The idea is pretty simple and low-tech: Permanently adhered to the inside of the suit - but protected by a thin sheet of fabric resting against the diver's skin - would be a heating coil similar to the coil found inside a Thermalution. Instead of wire, however, the coil would be made of a carbon fiber weave style fabric that heats up when electricity is applied. It is inexpensive and flexible and more efficient than the wire found in a Thermalution. The coil would be shaped in such a way as to not impede the wetsuit's natural stretch, and would extend on each side of the back, around the ribs and chest of the wearer, and even over the shoulders and about halfway down the arms.

The electrical connecting point would be a small plastic disk that permanently penetrated the suit with two screw-in gold-plated connectors not more than about a half an inch in diameter, right near the wearer's lower right ribs. Connection would be both waterproof and wet - and easy to connect and disconnect by feel.

Battery packs would be sold separately and in various sizes and be very similar to a canister light's battery pack - and yes, worn on the harness (but with optional mounts for other places). The battery pack would be waterproof and include a single dial-type controller (like a volume knob) on its lid that could be turned off or all the way up to 10. The cord would be waterproof and a heavy-duty "coil" style, stretchable from about 4" to 12" or so.

The suit could be worn with or without the battery - just in case you wanted to use it without the battery pack. The heating element would not be detectable to the wearer, so the suit could serve just fine in a standard, non-electric mode.

Retail for the entire suit with the built-in heater already assembled would be from $299 to $699, and would be available in 3mm, 5mm, and 7mm thicknesses. All seams would be sealed and taped like an O'Neill Sector or BARE Reactive suit is.

Batteries would range from small and lightweight units providing an hour or two of power for around $150, to larger units retailing for about $500. Batteries could be changed out underwater and during the dive.

Like standard canister lights, batteries would be user replaceable, and utilize batteries easily found in the retail market at stores like Amazon or Batteries Plus.

There's definitely a place in the market for a suit like this... And the simpler design of integrating the coils directly into the suit would be a huge advantage to the wetsuit diver... Which outnumber drysuit divers easily ten to one.

Drysuit divers wouldn't be forgotten, however... They'll have their own similar system, albeit with a slightly different, more watertight connection at the lower right ribs. I'd also make sure to offer something similar to the Thermalution shirt, just in case someone wanted to wear theirs to go snow skiing or at their kids' soccer game.

:)
 
If this was put in to a suit with low-compression neoprene (not the super-stretch like in the Reactives) and good ankle/wrist/neck skin seals, I am in. Add a dry zipper to make it a semi-dry suit, and I am in even at the high end of the cost scale!!!

I say this because in my california trip, my Mares Isotherm 6.5 was lower compression neoprene, and MUCH warmer that then 7 mil Bare super stretch, which compressed a lot and was cold once I hit 80'.

Anyway, these are great ideas and I can't want to see them hit the market. Hopefully this will come out by DEMA.
 
I agree about the drysuit zipper. I'm not sure why the wetsuit manufacturers haven't put a new-generation plastic drysuit zipper in a wetsuit yet... Although I suspect it has something to do with lateral strength and the way the zipper ends at the neck hole.

Still - point taken. There's no reason for wetsuits today using standard wetsuit zippers.

Wrist and ankle seals would be the plain O-ring style like you see on O'Neill wetsuits . I've had many gussetted, zippered, or "slickskin" type wrists and ankles, and for various reasons I'm simply not a fan. The plain O-ring type work well for a very long time and make the suit easy to don and doff without the complications and lack of good glove interface that a plain O-ring seal has.

I agree with you, too, about "super stretch" neoprene. It's a balancing act, really... Suits tend to fit better and be more comfortable with stretchier fabric, but last longer and stay warmer with the less stretchy stuff. I agree that the Reactives are a bit too stretchy for my taste, which culminates in a colder suit at depth and a suit that wears out very quickly. I also didn't like their "iron on" kneepads... Especially compared to the Kevlar units that the O'Neills have... And some of my guys had some problems with the zipper and the thick piping on either side of the zipper interfering with the zip action.

Ultimately, this suit would basically be an O'Neill Sector wetsuit... And although the zippers in them are perhaps the best in the industry, I think there could be some improvements in that part of the suit to reduce water entry - which always sucks when you first hit the water.

Don't forget that any small differences that you see between what we'd like to do and what your ultimate suit is, would be easily negated by the heated system. Even if our wetsuits aren't as dry as you'd like, you can always just turn it up a bit. :)

...Or you could just opt for one of the undershirts if you wanted to "retrofit" something else. :) Obviously you'd have to put a port in your current suit, but that's a pretty easy thing to do. Maybe we could sell a retrofit kit.

I'm still taking suggestions - so your voice is definitely heard. :)
 
Forgot to ask...

You mention that the BARE "superstretch" wasn't as warm as the Isotherm... Were you diving a Reactive or a Velocity wetsuit? Big difference in warmth between the two.

...And frankly, I've actually found the Reactives to be uncomfortably warm, believe it or not. It's that Celliant stuff... Ridiculously pricey and ridiculously warm.

...But not very long-lasting
 
It was the velocity because it did not have the skin seals at the wrists and ankles. It looked like the Celliant stuff inside.

I have a reactive 3 mil. It is great at no water flushing due to the good size skin seals at the extremities and snug seal around the neck, and seems well constructed But, I do not find it to be partcularly warm at depth when it compresses. I have a Waterproof 3 mil which does not have as good as seals or the Celliant stuff, but stays noticeably "thicker" and warmer at depth and over multiple dives. Much less compressible neoprene, though, and it has a lot of panels and anatomically bent elbows and knee areas because of that, so a little harder to don

The isotherm was more stretchy that my Waterproof, but not as much as the rental BARE (which was fairly new and in good shape). The isotherm was made with a lower-compressible neoprene. It is an old suit out of production for many years now. The cost of replacing the zipper makes me think I should get a new suit instead.

I do not believe the Celliant stuff is anything but marketing BS. No way the the tiny amount of FAR waves from your body are going to pass from your body, through a water layer (which filters FAR--the red end of the spectrum-- most), into the material, and then "bounce back" through that same water layer, to your core, to give you any extra warmth, and my experience has borne this out.

But, I think these BARE reactive suits are very warm just because they are well designed, well sealed, and well constructed suits. No hocus pocus material is needed. The celliant stuff dries pretty quickly and is easy to don, so there is some benefit there.

I know you like the basic O ring seals at wrist and ankles, but the skin seals make a big difference in water flushing and for me are worth the extra effort to don (even the suits with double skin seals where I roll the inner seal against my skin for a couple of inches). But, I am not jumping in an out of them like a commercial diver might.
 
Good points! I'll keep them in mind when we develop our powered suit.

I don't want to sound like a salesman - after all, I have no affiliation or allegiance to any one brand - but Celliant is a medical product used in the treating of diabetics and wound care. Its properties are well-documented. While it may feel similar to other linings found in other suits - and while I understand that we're all a bit calloused in the dive gear industry and tired of getting "marketed" to - I find the stuff to have real merit. In fact, when I first got the new BARE Reactive, I actually faulted it for being TOO warm! I agree that it's well-designed, but I have to admit I'm a believer in the Celliant material. The Reactive is the only suit with a Celliant lining. It may look the same as what's on the Velocity and other suits - but it's quite different.

The Reactive has a lot going for it: The fit is outstanding, and the seams are so well-sealed that water exchange is dramatically reduced... So yeah, you and I agree on that. I also agree that the suit's neoprene is very soft - which isn't such a good thing at depth or for durability.

We apparently disagree on the slickskin seals... I don't mind them in a new suit - while they make donning and doffing a bit more taxing, the reduced water flow is worth it at first. But as they age they tend to stick together as they dry, which can damage the lining and even tear the seal... Which negates the point of the seal in the first place.

Try an O'Neill Sector. The fit is slightly snugger than a BARE Reactive, but the sealed seams and body-contoured panels create an amazing fit... Which does a great job at all but negating water exchange. Suddenly, the wrist and ankle seals don't matter much anymore - and yet you don't have to deal with the problems related to slickskin like durability and donning/doffing. There's also no seam around the forearm (where the slickskin stuff begins), which can be annoying and cause extremity coldness for those with big forearms like me. :)

Best of all, O'Neill's proprietary neoprene strikes a better balance between stretchy and non-stretchy, leading to a warmer suit at depth while maintaining a great and comfortable fit. O'Neill claims to use several different stretch levels in different neoprene panels... Stretchier over the elbows and in the armpits, while less stretchy over the torso. I can't really tell any difference, but my warmth at depth, durability, and comfort levels all say that it's true.

I believe that powering a very good suit like the O'Neill Sector or the BARE Reactive or the Isotherm (going on your opinion - I've never dived an Isotherm) will negate or minimize any of these issues.

We'll see. :)

Perhaps I should make both a sealed (semi-dry) and unsealed (wetsuit) version. I suspect that with power, people will be more likely to prefer the fully wet version.
 

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