The Truth about the PRISM!!!!!!!!! OH NO!!!!

[Divesherpa]

John Taylor managed 13 posts since January 2002.
Many, if not most, trashing either Steam Machines or the PRISM.

Also, John Taylor has dealt with myself and others in an unsatisfactory manner. He changed the price of a can light several times. His delivery times for sold merchandise is months rather than days. The cave community of Florida roasted him. I haven't heard of any other individual being roasted like Mr. Taylor.

Jamie

 

[Mverick]

The thing I ask is this.

Did the guy actually buy 4 secondaries from Steam Machines?

Did the guy actually buy a lot of adjustable pots from Steam Machines?

If I had done the same. And still had troubles with the unit. I'd be ticked off too.

If you hit the scrubber housing in a wreck. Does it have a problem with flooding?

I talked to the guy on the phone. He explained alot of his problems. I also talked to someone who dove with him. And said he had a lot of problems with the unit. For real. Not a joke. But, he could have been more delicate with it. But, on a dive boat. That isn't always a possibility. I've tripped and fallen into something also. It's reality.

I'm not trashing either him or the manufacturer. But, from him and people who dove with him. He had a lot of problems with the unit. And with his next unit. No problems. And the next unit was a YBOD. From my understanding.

I don't want to worry if I drop the secondary on the boat. If it's going to ruin it. My HID light is bad enough. I would hope you could drop the thing 4 to 5 feet without ruining it. I understand you can't drop a AL80 on it. Or even the whole unit on it. But if the secondary falls out of your hand. Hits the deck. And it's junk. There is a problem. In my mind. If I did that to my Cochran dive computer. It just turns on...LOL

Pointing out problem area's is a good thing.

I talked to people at the Prism booth in Chicago last year. Nice people. They were really big on there unit. And I almost bought one. But, there were some things I wanted on a unit. And there's didn't have. Which is my own personel preference. No different then others personel preference. So, I'm still diving an IDA... Till the one I want is built. I was also told by someone on the board that he'd have one in production by Christmas and I should wait. LOL... Then he got mad about something else... LOL.... His still isn't being made or even discussed. And he wouldn't tell me ANYTHING about his unit....

About his money trouble. That doesn't have much to do with the problems he had with the Prism.

 

[silent running]

As a Prism owner who has traveled with my unit to the most remote locations on the other side of the globe many times, I can safely say that I have never had any serious durability issues with my unit. As for the secondary being slightly fragile, stowing the unit properly is all you need to do to avoid breaking it. The second generation ones are more durable than the first ones, but slightly larger. I have knocked mine around plenty and had no problems. I think the trade off of having a slightly fragile, totaly passive secondary that does not depend on electronics or batteries, is well worth making. There is no alternative to a jeweled movement needle gauge, if you want a passive secondary that runs directly off the sensors. I don't know any tech divers who dive their rigs without any cover or protection around their scrubbers/heads. It is just plain stooopid to do so while diving on a wreck. I've never had a problem with my cal potts either, and that's after 225 hrs on the unit. Cave seeker answered most of the other weak points of the guy who started this threads' rant. I do have something else to add though. He said money was not an issue for him. I disagree. I think it's the main issue for someone who is so obviously spoiled and self involved that they can't figure out why they alone had a bunch of problems with a piece of gear that the overwhelming majority of other users never experienced. Whatever...

 

[mxracer19]

so true. If I make 12 grand a year and I buy an OC rig for a thousand, youd better believe im going to love the HELL out of it, because I DONT have the money to replace something if it breaks.

 

[silent running]

Hello Mverick, I agree that pointing out problems is a good thing, but avoiding problems with ones CCR in the first place is only possible if the operator of the gear is themselves free of problems. Do you see the problem? And the more I learn of this guys history, I'd say he's definitely a problematic individual. I don't know if it's true, but I heard he sold the YBOD too. I'd bet he had lot's of complaints about that unit as well. The fact that he has chosen to rag on the Prism with so much hyperbolic vigor and untruthfulness indicates to me that something else is going on here that might be better described as a pathology and not complaining.

 

[Mverick]

Hello Mverick, I agree that pointing out problems is a good thing, but avoiding problems with ones CCR in the first place is only possible if the operator of the gear is themselves free of problems. Do you see the problem? And the more I learn of this guys history, I'd say he's definitely a problematic individual. I don't know if it's true, but I heard he sold the YBOD too. I'd bet he had lot's of complaints about that unit as well. The fact that he has chosen to rag on the Prism with so much hyperbolic vigor and untruthfulness indicates to me that something else is going on here that might be better described as a pathology and not complaining.

Actually, I know who bought the YBOD. Or one of them. And I know who brokered the deal. They said it looked like new. Really well taken care of. The guy who set up the deal is real well respected also. When I talked to jptrealty on the phone. He said he liked the YBOD but was a little thrown off by things like the battery in the loop. Just figured it's better not to have it there. Other then that. He said he had no problems. If you PM him. He'd probably call ya. He doesn't have any problem it seems talking about it. We had a good talk about RB's. He isn't stupid and knows alot about a lot of units.

And so far. I have heard his opinions of problems he had with the unit. And, it was backed up by someone else on the board. If I had that many problems with something I spend $8000 for. I'd be pissed too. As would anybody.

Supposedly dive boats in his area took bets as to how long it would be before he came up. Because he had problems all the time with it. A lot of the boats had considered banning RB's on the boats because of his problems. But, once he got a YBOD. The problems stopped.

I like hearing the problems with units. So I can make a decision about what to buy for myself.

So far I've gathered this.

Jeweled secondary you have to take care of. If you drop it It's going to destroy the movement.

Pots for calibration and sellecting PPO2 you have to be gentle with. Or you can destroy them.

Cover is required if diving the unit. To many potential problems with impacts to the unit while diving.

Can't adjust PPO2 during dive.

I would want to swap out the BC first thing.

All these things are nice to know. Before you buy. Doesn't mean it's a bad unit. Just things I'd like to know. One thing. I don't like the idea of a jeweled movement on it. To easy to break. Like others have said. Look at your tanks. Do you have gouges or scratches in the finish or on the Valves from hitting things? You will hit stuff. I want something that can take a beating.

And Navy tests.... Well, what the Navy wants in a unit. And what I want in a unit. Are 2 different things. A SEAL is contomplating a mission. Probably not going to 400 to 500 feet. There using it for a shallow insertion. No bubbles on the surface means no detection by guards on a dock. They want something that runs itself. But, suprising if having problems with impacts. As I know. They are not gentle on there gear.

I'm not doing that. I want deep diving. Bullet Proof construction. And ease of maintenance. Hopefully easily replacable parts that are easily sourced. Which, pretty well means I'm not buying ANY rebreather....LOL... Cause non so far seem to meet that criteria...

I hear all the Praise of the Prism. I've never heard anyone say the problems they have with them. Which I like to hear. Helps me decide.

 

[caveseeker7]

Mverick, the problem of John's post isn't that he criticises the PRISM, but how he does it. If it would have been a fair and even handed post nobody would have gotten on his case about it.

From what I understand he was pretty happy with his Inspo and it did well for him. Great. Yet he neither mentions selling nor the reason why. If you combine that with previous posts it just doesn't lend credibility to this one.

Simple thing really, say these are the rebreathers I owned. This is what I liked on each. This is what I didn't. These are the problems I had, how they occured, how I dealt with them, how the manufacturers dealt with them. From it all I learned this and this is what I need and want, and therefor my next rebreather will be this one. Or two, or three or four.

Then it would have been an informative post everyone might have learned something from, a contribution worth reading for a change.
I'm all for constructive criticism. But not for bashing.

Saying the secondary is garbage for example doesn't get anyone anywhere.
Give accounts of the damage, when and why they occured. If it was user error say so. It can and does happen, the more I know the more I can consider and prevent. And be fair about how SMI handled it. If repairs and/or replacements were made free of charge that should be included, even if you don't like them. That all is stuff people need to know. Not just "garbage". Like most everything else on a rebreather the secondary is a two sided sword with pros and cons. At least be fair to list them and have the balls to admit a mistake rather than just blame it on someone else.

 

[Mverick]

Mverick, the problem of John's post isn't that he criticises the PRISM, but how he does it. If it would have been a fair and even handed post nobody would have gotten on his case about it.

From what I understand he was pretty happy with his Inspo and it did well for him. Great. Yet he neither mentions selling nor the reason why. If you combine that with previous posts it just doesn't lend credibility to this one.

Simple thing really, say these are the rebreathers I owned. This is what I liked on each. This is what I didn't. These are the problems I had, how they occured, how I dealt with them, how the manufacturers dealt with them. From it all I learned this and this is what I need and want, and therefor my next rebreather will be this one. Or two, or three or four.

Then it would have been an informative post everyone might have learned something from, a contribution worth reading for a change.
I'm all for constructive criticism. But not for bashing.

Saying the secondary is garbage for example doesn't get anyone anywhere.
Give accounts of the damage, when and why they occured. If it was user error say so. It can and does happen, the more I know the more I can consider and prevent. And be fair about how SMI handled it. If repairs and/or replacements were made free of charge that should be included, even if you don't like them. That all is stuff people need to know. Not just "garbage". Like most everything else on a rebreather the secondary is a two sided sword with pros and cons. At least be fair to list them and have the balls to admit a mistake rather than just blame it on someone else.

Yep, That's all true.

I didn't find out if the new Secondaries were at his cost of SMI's cost. I'm not positive if he paid for the Calibration pots either. I do know he lost a lot of dives because of the problems.

But, If I had so much trouble with something. I'd be pretty vocal about it too... As a lot of people are.

And actually, some people asked him to post his problems with the Prism. So others could search for it. Instead of just doing it in a PM. That's where the post came from.

But, I've never seen problems with the Meg or Prism before now. It's nice to see what problems you might encounter. Before spending $8000, you have to admit.

 

[caveseeker7]

But, If I had so much trouble with something. I'd be pretty vocal about it too... As a lot of people are.

So would I, but I would at least try to be fair about it.
And I usually admit if I screw something up or make a mistake.
Plenty of apologies across the boards from those.

And actually, some people asked him to post his problems with the Prism. So others could search for it. Instead of just doing it in a PM. That's where the post came from.

That may well be, but from the headline on this is one obnoxious post.
And a very one-sided and incomplete one. Personally, I haven't learned anything from it worth knowing. Don't know about other readers, the thread has almost 500 hits now.

I've never seen problems with the Meg or Prism before now. It's nice to see what problems you might encounter. Before spending $8000, you have to admit.

No doubt, as there are less PRISM and Meg users there is less feedback.
But there is some, including the need to be carefull with the secondary or the scrubber mount on the PRISM. Add to that plenty of accounts from MK15 and 15.5 owners on their secondaries and anyone should know that an analog needle gauge is both one of the strongest and one of the weakest points of the systems that use them.

Moreover, once you make the effort to track them down and asked them, in person, PMs or mails, most all of them are willing to respond. That's the experience I made, and that's what I do. I have no problems pointing out things I don't particulary like and even added them to my article.

Each and every rebreather has trade-offs, may they be duration, expense, size and weight, WOB, availability of unit and/or spares and so on.
You do your research, talk to people who dive them, try them out, make your choice according to your wants and needs and hope you got it all right.

I know I can't adjust the setpoint on the electronics during the dive. It's not an issue for me now. If it will be two years from now it's my mistake, not the PRISMs. I already know I'm not the biggest fan of the BCD, but it works well enough until I can replace it with something that suits me better. I know plenty of divers who are happy with it. It certainly isn't garbage just because it's not my or someone else's preference.

Anyway, no reason to beat around any more on a dead horse. If anyone has any detailed accounts on any problems with any rebreather I'm intrested to learn about it.

By the way, I agree Work Sucks.

 

[pescador775]

I am thankful for informed malcontents like Mr Taylor because one doesn't have to decipher parsed words, oblique references, and lots of "on the other hand" stuff which is a sign of uncertainty, wobbly knowledge, and status conscious, politically correct behaviour. So, Mr Taylor, thanks for your report on the $8000 lemon. What a nightmare. . You have my sympathies.