The straw that broke the divers back.

[lulubelle]

No this isn't personal I don't know you. Its actually a quote from Full Metal Jacket:
from IMDB

I didn't take it personally 116fire as it doesn't apply to me. But these are the words you chose in your initial post (sans reference of any kind) and they are denigrating and judgmental of others, hence my objection to their use. No one would argue that someone who is morbidly obese is fit enough for diving. But there are many body types out there which are fit, not just the one you describe. Some of them are thin and lean, some carry a few extra pounds. And there are many body types out there which are not fit, again, some of them thin and lean, some carrying a few extra pounds. All of them (thin and not) should evaluate their fitness for diving with their physician's help. You should not be their judge and jury.

This thread was supposedly started in the context of recent diver deaths none of which have been related to lack of physical fitness.

 

[Web Monkey]

^ The 3 posts above have been disproven by the following quote:

So you think a quote from GUE proves that panic isn't caused by stress?

Terry

 

[Hetland]

In fact I prefer to dive alone because I don't trust the abilities of strangers. But if I HAD to choose a dive partner I probably wouldn't pick the obese guy with his belly hanging over his BCD cumberbun, I'l give you that much.

I wonder what other groups you prejudge? Would you not pick a woman? What about a minority, or an older person?

I never used the words "disgusting fat body".

Those are YOUR words.

Actually they are the words of the OP. You guys seem to be taking the same track and I mixed you up. My error.

 

[idocsteve]

So you think a quote from GUE proves that panic isn't caused by stress?

Terry

Nope, I never said nor implied anything of that nature.

The three quotes that were disproven all suggested no correlation between being out of shape and panicking during a dive.

That does not mean that being out of shape is the only risk factor for panicking during a dive.

 

[idocsteve]

I wonder what other groups you prejudge? Would you not pick a woman? What about a minority, or an older person?

I trust no one but myself. When contemplating diving with one or more strangers on a dive boat, I'd prefer to dive alone and not place my safety or my own liability in the hands of an unknown diver, especially considering that the "average" diver (from what I understand) dives perhaps only a few times per year with long stretches in between, and many of them have never pursued additional or refresher training once they completed their OW certification. I do not prejudge and I am certainly not discriminating between women, minorities, or older folks, however I'll admit that given the choice I'd pass up the 90 year old geezer and buddy up with the hot 20 year old blonde in the tight fitting wet suit. In fact, given a choice between diving solo and pairing up with the blonde, I'd take my chances with her. Even if she put her mask on backwards.

Actually they are the words of the OP. You guys seem to be taking the same track and I mixed you up. My error.

When you read something someone else wrote, and then you choose to add a few of their words to your own posts without quoting them, they're your words too.

No one would argue that someone who is morbidly obese is not fit enough for diving.

There's another risk factor for morbidly obese divers that I have not seen mentioned in ANY reference material but I can speak from personal experience on this one, because I took a group trip once and there was a really large dude with us.

Every so often towards the end of the dive, someone would surface and jump on the poor guy, sending him sputtering and gasping below the surface. That in of itself is a panic trigger right there. Finally he got smart and stopped removing his mask and regulator even though the seas were dead calm, but the strange activity continued.

Upon questioning the divers who did this, they all said the same thing.

"We thought he was the BOAT!"

It gets worse...once we were right in the midst of starting a dive, some divers were already in the water, and we got an emergency broadcast from another boat, about a half mile away, warning of a rogue wave approaching the size of a Tsunami! Their boat was completely swamped and in danger of capsizing, and reports started to come rolling in from others in the area. We braced for impact, divers either descended or in a panic, scrambled back up the boarding ladder, and we secured our gear. But it never came, and here's why... in case you haven't yet guessed it...the wave was going away from us. Why? Because it was the result of big dude doing a giant stride off of our boat.

 

[Hetland]

The three quotes that were disproven all suggested no correlation between being out of shape and panicking during a dive.

That does not mean that being out of shape is the only risk factor for panicking during a dive.

What part of this:

Originally Posted by Hetland

Fitness is irrelevant in breath holding.

I guess the reason this thread irritates me so much is because I get the impression that some people believe that the number of sit-ups you do is directly proportional to your chance of survival..... Apparently because you are more likely to panic if you're obese.

Was disproven?

 

[idocsteve]

What part of this:<> Was disproven?

Breath hold diving shares many commonalities with scuba diving, and it has been stated by a well known and respected medical diving organization that in regards to diving:

"Hyperventilation and panic stress reactions are more likely to occur in the physically unfit".

Your statement that "Fitness is irrelevant in breath holding." is erroneous, in fact fitness probably plays a LARGER role in this form of diving because of the greater physical demands placed on the body.

The other 2 parts of your post that were quoted and I said were disproven were about the number of situps being directly proportional to your chances of survival- this is in fact true, not false as you posted, and panic is more likely in the obese, as stated by the posted medical guidelines, so you're wrong on all 3 counts.

 

[RonFrank]

I think the problem with the entire premise of the thread is that the OP takes accidents that he knows little to nothing about, and uses those as a case for inciting SB divers to get fit or die diving in a rather preachy type of post.

As someone who did fitness instruction (many many moons ago) I can tell you using terms like "a disgusting fat body" is hardly motivational, in fact, it has quite the opposite impact.

Diving is not an aerobic activity, nor is it an activity where peak physical fitness will prevail over experience. The best divers I see are not generally the fittest folks on the planet, they are just the most dedicated divers.

Get fit because it will make you feel better, provide more energy, etc. Don't get fit because you want to be a better diver, get fit to improve your life overall.

The idea that the recent accidents/deaths can be attributed to poor fitness is a bunch of hooey as there has been zero evidence to support such a statement. With diving accidents, there is rarely ANYTHING to go on other then... drowning.

 

[vladimir]

Medical: Have a physical once a year. Have a stress test.

Is there a consensus in the medical community that annual physical exams for asymptomatic adults under the age of 50 are necessary? There may have been a generation ago, but I think the annual physical's usefulness has been widely questioned. Are stress tests a routine part of the physical examination of a healthy adult under the age of 50 with no risk factors for coronary heart disease?

 

[lulubelle]

No one would argue that someone who is morbidly obese is (not) fit enough for diving. But there are many body types out there which are fit, not just the one you describe.

I made a grammatical error in my post quoted above. I have removed the *not* in parentheses above. My intention was to agree that someone who is medically classified as morbidly obese is not likely to be healthy enough for diving, but that many people who are simply overweight are. There are specific medical classifications which indicate the difference. Conversely, being thin and lean does not ensure that a person is healthy enough for diving. People who are healthy and unhealthy, fit and unfit, come in all shapes and sizes. Divers and their doctors should be the judge and jury of diving fitness, not members of any board.

And for some of you who are openly making fun of other human beings whose shoes you do not walk in and whose circumstances you do not understand, shame on you. I am new to Scuba Board, maybe that is just how some of you roll here.


I carry a few extra pounds, some in the right places :blinking: and I guarantee I could swim circles around many of you and tow most of you through the water if you were in need of my assistance. But some of you I might pass on being dive buddies with as I don't think I would enjoy the surface interval very much.