The role of height in on required weight to reach neutral buoyancy

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

drk5036

Contributor
Messages
936
Reaction score
887
Location
Sapporo, Japan
# of dives
100 - 199
This is a topic I've been considering a lot, and feel like has not been significantly discussed. What is the role of height when determining the required lead / weight check for diving?

To achieve neutral buoyancy, one needs to add enough lead (lets include tank weight for simplicity) to counteract the buoyancy of ones body. I think that height, and projected body size with limbs extended, likely plays a huge role in determining person-to-person weighting, and has primarily been ignored. To discuss this further, I want to look at two points: 1) the difference in buoyancy of thermal protection with varying size, and 2) the variance in true "density" in the water, when calculating volume based on projected area.

First, lets consider the impact on total overall buoyancy of a wetsuit, for people of different heights. How much weight does it take to sink a wetsuit for someone who is 5'6" (66 inches) versus someone who is 6'7" (79 inches)? Just based on proportions, that's 20% more neoprene, not taking into account other factors, where a taller person likely, on average, requires a larger suit. I think this number being 33% greater is not out of the question.Given that this is a percentage, this effect likely isn't very noticeable for thin wetsuits. If it takes 4 pounds or so to sink a 3 mm wetsuit for someone who is 5'6", it might take 5 pounds for someone who is 6'7". However, if you're wearing a 7 mm wetsuit, or a drysuit that requires 25 pounds to sink, that would increase the required lead up to 32 pounds, a significantly noticeable increase.

Second, lets consider true "density" of a diver, taking into account body size. Buoyancy is a result of a force balance between gravity pulling down on an object, and a fluid pressing up on the object. The apparent weight in water can be defined by the weight of a person, minus the weight of displaced fluid, and the apparent weight of a diver must be negative for them to sink. For two people who are the same weight, and one is 5'6" and one is 6'7", the taller diver will displace much more water (again, at least 20%), making his density much lower. Therefore, the taller diver will need to carry more weight, EVEN FOR TWO DIVERS OF THE SAME WEIGHT! to be able to sink.

My conclusion from this analysis (that I'm still chewing over and would like to get feedback from everyone else on) is that the common belief, that people who carry more body fat require more weight, and leaner people sink better, hurts our guestimate at weighting more than it helps. Specifically, that guideline only works when comparing divers who are the same height. And I think this is why we have such a wide range of answers when discussing weighting. I've often shocked people by saying that despite the fact I weight 205 pounds, I only need 9 pounds of lead to dive in my 8/7 mm semidry with a small (8 L) steel tank. This is likely due to being only 5'6" tall. If I was 6'3" 205 pounds (ah, one can dream...), I would likely require more weight to dive.

Any thoughts?
 
Height and weight only contribute to the calculation in respect to the amount of positive buoyancy an exposure suit has. Being tall or short, thick or thin doesn’t matter......just the amount of neoprene it takes to protect you and the amount of negative buoyancy it takes to keep it neutral at 10 feet. Short fat person suit could likely equal tall skinny suit.

Body composition, if average, has little to do with the overall calculation. Generally and in practical application the body is water.......extreme ends will have more of an effect.

So, the balanced rig calculation,

Find the amount of positive (exposure protection)....
Find the amount negative (backplate, steel tank etc).....
Minus negative from positive and that is your “lead” requirement.
Delve into it as much as you like......when the fins hit the water.....it’s quite simple.
 
First, lets consider the impact on total overall buoyancy of a wetsuit, for people of different heights. How much weight does it take to sink a wetsuit for someone who is 5'6" (66 inches) versus someone who is 6'7" (79 inches)? Just based on proportions, that's 20% more neoprene, not taking into account other factors, where a taller person likely, on average, requires a larger suit. I think this number being 33% greater is not out of the question.Given that this is a percentage, this effect likely isn't very noticeable for thin wetsuits. If it takes 4 pounds or so to sink a 3 mm wetsuit for someone who is 5'6", it might take 5 pounds for someone who is 6'7". However, if you're wearing a 7 mm wetsuit, or a drysuit that requires 25 pounds to sink, that would increase the required lead up to 32 pounds, a significantly noticeable increase.
The effect of height is usually encapsulated in one's weight....more weight means more body...whether tall or round, so more wetsuit/buoyancy. It is not perfect, but does not need to be. An in-water weight check is the only valid test...no calculation is adequate.
Second, lets consider true "density" of a diver, taking into account body size. Buoyancy is a result of a force balance between gravity pulling down on an object, and a fluid pressing up on the object. The apparent weight in water can be defined by the weight of a person, minus the weight of displaced fluid, and the apparent weight of a diver must be negative for them to sink. For two people who are the same weight, and one is 5'6" and one is 6'7", the taller diver will displace much more water (again, at least 20%), making his density much lower. Therefore, the taller diver will need to carry more weight, EVEN FOR TWO DIVERS OF THE SAME WEIGHT! to be able to sink.
You may want to rethink your logic here. And relook at Archimedes' Principle.
 
I follow all you say. To be honest, I'm not sure why we even need to know the physics of it all. There were more complicated physics examples in the DM course I took.
Bottom line is you just do an in-water weight check, no? Oops he beat me to it.
 
yes if the diver is spherical, then the wetsuit coverage is minimized. The more you diverge from a "round ball" the more skin area you will have and thus the more neoprene area you will need to cover yourself.
 
I also have found when it comes to weight, and equally importantly trim, science is a waste of time.

Adding heavier tech type fins to my setup so horribly screwed my trim up that I felt like I was diving with a beach ball underneath me tipping all over the place. I got rid of the two 1lb rear trim weights I had in my BCD and suddenly everything was perfect. I never bothered to figure out why adding weight to my feet required me to remove weight from my back or even what the fins weight difference actually was. If it works it works.
 
yes if the diver is spherical, then the wetsuit coverage is minimized. The more you diverge from a "round ball" the more skin area you will have and thus the more neoprene area you will need to cover yourself.
I'll bet there is remarkably little difference in the surface area of a typically short, fat person and a tall skinny person, given that the former is never spherical and the latter is never a simple cylinder. I guess one could just weigh a (say) 5mm wetsuit for each body type and find out, but all mine are just one body type, so I can't run the experiment.
 
OK, I want to propose a hypothetical question. If I, at 5'6" 205 pounds, and another diver at 6'7" 205 pounds are wearing the same exact gear, including wetsuit, will approximately the same amount of weight work for both of us? If not, why not?

I'm not trying to prevent the need for a weight check, so you don't need to post "just do an in water weight check". I'm more academically interested in why the tall skinny guy I was diving with in Komodo could not stay submerged with 5 kg or weight, needing at least 6 kg, and I can dive without any extra lead, when we were both wearing new 3 mm wetsuits.
 
Perhaps, but human morphology versus climate seems to have some relationships - from what I recall. It is nothing more than a surface area to volume ratio thing - with respect to wetsuits anyway
 
OK, I want to propose a hypothetical question. If I, at 5'6" 205 pounds, and another diver at 6'7" 205 pounds are wearing the same exact gear, including wetsuit, will approximately the same amount of weight work for both of us? If not, why not?

I'm not trying to prevent the need for a weight check, so you don't need to post "just do an in water weight check". I'm more academically interested in why the tall skinny guy I was diving with in Komodo could not stay submerged with 5 kg or weight, needing at least 6 kg, and I can dive without any extra lead, when we were both wearing new 3 mm wetsuits.
Fat vs muscle?
 

Back
Top Bottom