The Problem with Science as a Substitute

[Hank49]

Any empire that has ever used religion as a power base has been eventually defeated and overthrown, including Catholic Rome. So it is time to get over it, not.
"

That may be, but has there been an empire that used ANYTHING as a power base that wasn't overthrown, defeated, self destucted, obliviated......?

 

[Theunis]

I think that is the 1st intelligent thing you have said regarding this issue. Now, think about that statement, and the situation us americans are in.

Thanks for this. I'm an outsider living in South Africa. I thought about this and need clarification. Is this Empire using religion, as a power base, the Americans or America's enemies? I'm serious about this question and need to understand.

 

[Teamcasa]

T/C, history tells us this is true of the Roman Catholic Church and its popes and underlings during the Medieval period, sure. So you need to focus this responsibility on one political-religious organization, and not on all faiths in their entirety during and since. The Lutherin, Calvinist, and American reformations have since rectified this problem of one chruch dominating empires since then. How can you blame everybody for Catholicism's failures? How is this just or even logical???

First off, I’m not placing blame anywhere, just stating my opinion. However, the fact remains that all regimes not currently active have failed.

There is no reason, as has been pointed out here repeatedly, that the two should ever clash, since they have nothing in common at all. This is the whole point and content of this thread, and hopefully to the revelation of all those who love Jesus and hate science, as well as all those atheists who love their science books and hate religion.

I don’t hate religion or science. I try to learn as much as I can about each. Problems arise when you take one side and refuse to learn from other. A few folks around here feel absolutely certain they are right and people with other viewpoints are just stupid and wrong. I’ll spare you the list of things we were certain about only 100 years ago.

Anyone in science who thinks that science supersedes religion does not understand science. And conversely, anyone in religion who thinks religion contradicts science does not under stand the Hebrew Old Testament, nor the Greek New Testament, nor the Muslim Q'ran, nor the Hindu Vedas.

Science and religion have and will continue to be intertwined.

Well if this was in the days before history began, then how do you know about it at all??? This statement smells really fishy. As Johnny Depp said in Pirate of the Caribbean, "If there are never any survivors from the Black Pearl, then who is left to tell the stories I wonder?"

I’ll make this as simple possible. When history was not known, people just invented it.

 

[sandmanz32]

Thanks for this. I'm an outsider living in South Africa. I thought about this and need clarification. Is this Empire using religion, as a power base, the Americans or America's enemies? I'm serious about this question and need to understand.

It seems that way to me. "in god we trust" is printed on our currency, the phrase," one nation under god" is in out pledge, and anytime you go to court you have to swear on a bible. Most of this is all new, since the turn of the century. Not to mention our war on terror, or in other words, christians attempt to conquer muslims for their oil. Im not really gonna get into that one, but at the rate things are going over here i can feel a revolution comming on

 

[nereas]

...Science and religion have and will continue to be intertwined. ...

Only by those who know little or nothing about either.

Catholic popes who have tried to impose their own fantasies and will upon science, knowing nothing about science and very little about true religion. They have previously intertwined them. But they no longer insist that the sun revolves around the Earth, nor that the Earth is the center of the universe.

I cannot think of any other grave instances in history where science was impeded by any particular religion. Many refuse to avail themselves of medical science, such as those who refuse blood transfusions or medical care. But science lives on in their stead.

In modern times, concerned activists have tried to restrict the codification of evolutionary theories upon their children in public schools. The problem here is however political, not scientific nor religious. Teaching religion in a public school financed by tax money in a nation where Amendments and state constitutions forbid it is asking for the wrong thing.

Kids belong in private schools if they want to give religion equal time, and that is expensive.

 

[Sas]

I cannot think of any other grave instances in history where science was impeded by any particular religion. Many refuse to avail themselves of medical science, such as those who refuse blood transfusions or medical care. But science lives on in their stead.

Stem cell - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Teamcasa]

Only by those who know little or nothing about either.

Catholic popes who have tried to impose their own fantasies and will upon science, knowing nothing about science and very little about true religion. They have previously intertwined them. But they no longer insist that the sun revolves around the Earth, nor that the Earth is the center of the universe.

I don’t get you. What the Catholic Church did 200+ years ago have little bearing on today’s events. Virtually all religions had their atrocities, there are no innocents in that arena by today’s standard.

I cannot think of any other grave instances in history where science was impeded by any particular religion. Many refuse to avail themselves of medical science, such as those who refuse blood transfusions or medical care. But science lives on in their stead.

You need to get out more. Just read the front page of any newspaper. (Or google the world news or you could just ask Thall!)

In modern times, concerned activists have tried to restrict the codification of evolutionary theories upon their children in public schools. The problem here is however political, not scientific nor religious. Teaching religion in a public school financed by tax money in a nation where Amendments and state constitutions forbid it is asking for the wrong thing.

Kids belong in private schools if they want to give religion equal time, and that is expensive.

Ahh, The old separation stuff again. As a Christian, I am glad they teach evolution and not creation in public schools. Religion has no business in public schools, period. I sent my kids to private schools up until High School. After that, to a private college. They were taught both theories and came to their own conclusions.

Education is the only answer to what ails this world. As people learn, they begin to ask questions. Armed with the answers and choices the information provides, they shall succeed. Blindly following the rules and customs is a result of ignorance, not stupidity.

 

[DiverBeth]

It seems that way to me. "in god we trust" is printed on our currency, the phrase," one nation under god" is in out pledge, and anytime you go to court you have to swear on a bible. Most of this is all new, since the turn of the century. Not to mention our war on terror, or in other words, christians attempt to conquer muslims for their oil. Im not really gonna get into that one, but at the rate things are going over here i can feel a revolution comming on

Just a point of clarification you do not have to swear on a bible in court. As an attorney and also having been a party to litigation at least here in and around Chicago most of the time a civil oath, no mention of swearing to God, is given. As I don't believe in swearing to God in a court of law, when I've been confronted with having to swear to God, I've refused and asked for a civil oath. Twice this has brought the proceedings to a total halt as the judges never encountered this before and didn't know what to to until I told them how to administer a civil oath.

My reason for doing this has to do with my belief in the separation of church and state. God doesn't belong in our governmental institutions because whose God are we talking about?

Besides if you swear to God to tell the truth if you lie then it should be up to God to punish you.

 

[Teamcasa]

Thank you for that Beth. I'm in complete agreement.

 

[nereas]

...Ahh, The old separation stuff again. As a Christian, I am glad they teach evolution and not creation in public schools. Religion has no business in public schools, period. I sent my kids to private schools up until High School. After that, to a private college. They were taught both theories and came to their own conclusions.

Education is the only answer to what ails this world. As people learn, they begin to ask questions. Armed with the answers and choices the information provides, they shall succeed. Blindly following the rules and customs is a result of ignorance, not stupidity.

I certainly agree with you there.

I think it would be better if kids were not brainwashed in public schools into believing that science theories are fact.

Kids in private schools are much better off, in this respect.