The Philosophy of Diver Training

[Crush]

I just don't see anyone coming out of any agency OW class and being ready to rescue another person with thier limited experience.

I did. Basic OW-certified by ACUC (formerly "Association of Canadian Underwater Councils," now "American Canadian Underwater Certifications") in May 2008. We practiced ascertaining consciousness underwater and slow, controlled ascents with an unconscious victim in the pool as well as various surface pushes/pulls/swims. First aid was covered, mechanisms of injury, and treatment. We also did buddy breathing. One guy in our class was mighty miffed since his girlfriend certified in a nearby city with a different agency and she "didn't have to do any of this ****."

 

[DCBC]

Is "required for certification" the instructor setting his own standards? Setting up outside a manual is just wrong!(JMHO) Peolpe buy and read a manual and expect to be taught or informed and tested about what was in the manual. Not stuff that the instructor felt they should be taught or tested on.

John, you obviously come from a PADI background. For me to certify a diver, s/he has to meet the requirements of the certification agency, as well as my own requirements. Where I teach in Nova Scotia (Bay of Fundy/North Atlantic) divers are subjected to extreme water temperatures (balmy today at 33 degrees) and the largest tides in the world. I require my students to be able to read a tide chart and project their dive plan accordingly. If they can't, they aren't certified.

They also have to perform a rescue surface/sub-surface on a conscious/non-conscious diver. Certifications like NAUI, ACUC and CMAS (amongst others) recognize that the instructor has a unique insight as to what is required to dive safely in their area. This information isn't canned into any training manual, nor is training conducted like paint-by-numbers. One solution does not fit all. Whatever additional training than an instructor gives is useless unless it may be examined by the instructor and certification can be withheld until it is satisfactorily completed.

 

[Crush]

My basic-OW training was a total of 30 hours instruction time (in and out of the pool) at a cost of $315. Is this typical?

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

My basic-OW training was a total of 30 hours instruction time (in and out of the pool) at a cost of $315. Is this typical?

Depends on what was included. Did you pay extra for your student materials? How much pool time (pools are expensive)? What equipment was supplied vs what you had to supply yourself?

I once worked for a shop that charged $375 for OW (SSI), but the price included student materials and a minimum of 9 hours of scheduled pool time. Additional pool time was available as needed prior to OW for no additional charge.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Kingpatzer]

... most divers trained in warm, tropical water would quickly find themselves in difficulty trying to transition to Puget Sound conditions without some additional training. Since we don't DO divemasters here, anyone wanting to dive local conditions needs training that goes above the minimum standards.

And that stance is precisely the same as PADI's, the difference would be that PADI would indicate that the additional training is appropriately gained in additional courses if the diver is already certified. For someone being OW certified in your area, the course should, of necessity, be vastly different than that offered in Cozumel.

 

[DCBC]

And that stance is precisely the same as PADI's, the difference would be that PADI would indicate that the additional training is appropriately gained in additional courses if the diver is already certified. For someone being OW certified in your area, the course should, of necessity, be vastly different than that offered in Cozumel.

With PADI, the Instructor cannot test on anything that's not in the manual, nor can he withhold certification if the minimum PADI standards are met. This training just isn't sufficient everywhere.

 

[Mike Boswell]

Talk about the old days...

When I was young,

1. I was the best diver around.
2. I knew everything about diving.
3. I was invincible and immortal.

Then I took lots of classes, and now,

1. I'm not that great of a diver.
2. Lots of people know more than I do.
3. I have to be really careful because I'm scared and I don't want to die.

So, it's obvious that lessons and training DON'T make you a better diver - THEY MAKE YOU WORSE!

 

[NYCSurfer]

I'm not sure the lack of Buddy Breathing training is a valid complaint It was dropped because it became unnecessary with the advent of alternate second stages. And from what I've heard, even when it was taught, OOA divers frequently didn't give it back.

What would be even better is teaching divers how to not "run out of air" in the first place. Aside from extremely rare hardware failures, OOA is almost entirely Diver Error.

Terry

I was originally NAUI certified in 1976. I took a long respite (28 years) from diving and decided to get back into diving about a year ago. After doing a little research, I decided it would be prudent to take a full OW course and learn about these new-fangled things called an octopus among, other things. I just received my AOW card in the mail yesterday and the training to date is nowhere near what I went through "back in the day". I can't agree that the alternate second made buddy breathing unnecessary to learn. I think buddy breathing is a skill that should still be taught. Call me crazy, but I was taught that if I am donating my regulator to buddy breath, my hand never leaves the reg. I am sure that I will have a better chance of calming/keeping calm my OOA buddy if his hand is on top of mine holding my reg.
When I learned buddy breathing, we had to do a 500 yard swim buddy breathing. One of the assistant instructors had these nifty new double 40 tanks that everybody was oohing and aahing over. He asked if I wanted to use them for that night's class. I said of course. Well about half way through the buddy breathing drill, it starting getting harder to breathe. Fortunately that was in the day of the j valve and I pulled the rod and finished the drill. When I got out of the water the AI and the others were standing there laughing. I was a bit pissed, but it was the last time I got into the water to breathe air from a tank without knowing exactly how much air was in said tank. The owner of the doubles and the course instructor were both watching to see what my buddy and I would do when we ran out of air.

 

[Walter]

Setting up outside a manual is just wrong!(JMHO) Peolpe buy and read a manual and expect to be taught or informed and tested about what was in the manual. Not stuff that the instructor felt they should be taught or tested on.

Why? There are many different manuals. As far as I know, none of them were brought by Moses from Mount Sinai. Do you feel all manuals are perfect? Do you feel short comings shouldn't be corrected? Do you feel instructors are incompetent and should merely rubber stamp the manual? Do you feel the instructor might test on things they didn't teach in an attempt to fail the student? Do you believe the manual actually tells students what will be covered in the pool in more than a general way? In some agencies, instructors can't even agree on what the agency requires.

Some agencies agree with you and do not allow instructors to add requirements. Other agencies encourage instructors to add requirements.

 

[DCBC]

My basic-OW training was a total of 30 hours instruction time (in and out of the pool) at a cost of $315. Is this typical?

It's already been said, but it largely depends on what your getting for the money. I use to run courses for $350 including everything (students were expected to provide their personal basic equipment). I was losing students who went to a PADI shop because it was only $99. Many ended-up coming back when they realized that there were addition charges: $30 for a textbook, $100 pool equipment rental, $100 open-water equipment rental and a $50 certification fee ($379). My course was 50 hours, theirs 27, so if you add everything up, you can see what's reasonable and what's marketing.