The Philosophy of Diver Training

[Kingpatzer]

The market doesn't want these things. How about diver rescue?

PADI HQ told me these things are too much for an open-water program. "You need to sell them on another course."

That is PADI's answer. But PADI doesn't claim that an open water course is comprehensive with regard to scuba skills. They have a modular approach to learning.

Try teaching buddy-breathing with PADI, or adding anything as "required for certification" that's not in the manual; you can't.

Gee, odd that I learned it. Though I do believe it has been removed from the optional material that may be covered.

 

[Kingpatzer]

But was your proficiency in them tested as part of your certification.

Depending on the course, yes.

To claim that an OW student learning to dive to no deeper than 60' without over-head obstruction in near perfect conditions needs to know how to buddy breath in order to be a safe diver verges on ludicrous.

 

[DCBC]

That is PADI's answer. But PADI doesn't claim that an open water course is comprehensive with regard to scuba skills. They have a modular approach to learning.

That works well as long as the diver takes further training. Hopefully it will be quickly after their first program. My response to PADI HQ was "What if they don't come back?" They just fell silent.

Gee, odd that I learned it.

You are indeed fortunate, but it wasn't by following the standards.

 

[Kingpatzer]

That works well as long as the diver takes further training. Hopefully that will be quickly after their first program. My response to PADI HQ was "What if they don't come back?" The just fell silent.

Students who are interested in nothing more than vacation diving have no real need to return.

 

[DCBC]

Students who are interested in nothing more than vacation diving have no real need to return.

Perhaps, but I believe a buddy is there for a reason and should be able to perform a rescue if needed and be able to buddy breath if required. Yes, even in vacation diving. Rumor has it that people can drown in warm water equally as well as in cold.

 

[Crush]

Students who are interested in nothing more than vacation diving have no real need to return.

Most agencies state that the minimum level of training a diver should attain is SRD.

Personally, if you aren't into it and only want to vacation dive, I can respect being Basic-OW only. The problem is that, when I am paired with an insta-buddy, I can often only gauge how good their talk is, not how good they really are. I'd love to see a mandatory bright green "Basic-OW only" badge be required to be worn by anyone who is Basic-OW only so that I can be sure to keep an extra wary eye on my situation and on them.

 

[Walter]

Students who are interested in nothing more than vacation diving have no real need to return.

I disagree. Vacation divers are subjected to the same stresses as other divers.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

You also need to look at the RSTC standards that all subscribing agencies say they follow. They state that the goal for an OW diver is to be able to plan, execute, and safely return from a dive in conditions equal to or better than that in which they have trained. With a buddy of equal training and skill. Without a professional in the water. That is right out of OW class. they do not say that they should be able to do this with a DM holding their hand, planning their dive, setting up their gear, etc. Otherwise how can they say they meet RSTC standards let alone exceed them when this is clearly not the case.

 

[JKPAO]

Is "required for certification" the instructor setting his own standards?

Setting up outside a manual is just wrong!(JMHO) Peolpe buy and read a manual and expect to be taught or informed and tested about what was in the manual. Not stuff that the instructor felt they should be taught or tested on.


Some OW classes are set to make $$$$, make diving available to all, and to make it enjoyable. Not beat someone up because they don't kick or hover in such a way that the instructor likes. Diving is not as difficult as alot of people want to make it out to be.

As long as honest self evaluation is stressed after being exposed to the skills required by any agency the diver should be able to dive safely. In general you aren't going to master skills in one or ten visits in a pool. Not alot of people I know travel to the exotic places to go dive in the pool!


As we all know PADI does have steps to get to be certified Rescue Diver, you just don't get there in your first trip to the pool. Even if it is the money that they are after. I just don't see anyone coming out of any agency OW class and being ready to rescue another person with thier limited experience. Unless you have been taught and exposed to the info. and can perform it with out making yourself an added hazard. Steps need to be taken one at a time.

Any diver should strive to dive indepent of supervision, some will some won't.

I am done my rant now back to your scheduled program!

See you topside! John

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Is "required for certification" the instructor setting his own standards?

Setting up outside a manual is just wrong!(JMHO) Peolpe buy and read a manual and expect to be taught or informed and tested about what was in the manual. Not stuff that the instructor felt they should be taught or tested on.

That depends on the agency, and the philosophy that they use to train divers.

The agency I teach for (NAUI) recognizes that divers in different environments need different skills ... or they need to learn skills to different levels ... in order to dive that environment safely. Therefore they set a minimum requirement, and trust the instructor's judgment as to whether or not additional skills are needed for the environment in which they are training.

I happen to believe that is just right ... most divers trained in warm, tropical water would quickly find themselves in difficulty trying to transition to Puget Sound conditions without some additional training. Since we don't DO divemasters here, anyone wanting to dive local conditions needs training that goes above the minimum standards.

And FWIW - I write a lot of my own training material. It's meant to be used *in addition to* the course material NAUI provides. My students know - going into the class - what the expectations are. If they feel it's not compatible with their goals, they are free to choose a different instructor.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)