The Philosophy of Diver Training

[MauiScubaSteve]

When I was censored by PADI HQ, I didn't think anything in the Standards prohibited these things as well. It was pointed out to me that unless it's specifically mentioned in Standards by name, it's not covered. There was something in the fine print of PADI insurance as well.

Since this thread meanders along at a glacial pace, I will just continue with occasional small points;

The current dive insurance situation is way different than back when this conversation with PADI HQ happened. I only used V&B for the first partial year after my PADI IE. Within the month I completed my crossover to IANTD and my first full year was not with V&B. Was PADI ever really an Insurance Agency?

After my Instructor certifications I did some cave training. The Instructor / Program I trained under started deco diving in Apprentice, and I have no desire to deco. I called PADI HQ and asked about the requirements to be a PADI Cavern Specialty Instructor. The phone was passed to the guy in that room who had Full Cave and he told me that my reasoning was sound and they would accept Intro to Cave as pre-rec to become a Cavern Specialty Instructor.

I have only been an Instructor for this century but both the insurance situation and the Cavern Specialty Instructor pre-rec's have changed. It seems any instructor can be insured by Witherspoon and Full Cave is now required for Cavern Specialty. Imagine what has changed since DCBC quit PADI.

Frank became a licensed insurance agent in 1977. Along with Peter Buckley, he purchased Gene List Insurance Agency. In 1986, Gene List became Vicencia & Buckley Insurance Services, Inc. The firm has grown 3,000% since the acquisition in 1977.

 

[JeffG]

That's not what I asked. I asked what standards will be used to determine if the instructor acted properly when training the student when the instructor is being tried in a court of law.

are we talking about theoretical Standards for Dive Agency X? or are you talking about Real Standards that exist for a specific agency?


(just trying make sure we are on the same page.)

 

[boulderjohn]

are we talking about theoretical Standards for Dive Agency X? or are you talking about Real Standards that exist for a specific agency?

)

You said standards would be used, and I was asking what standards you meant. I used XYZ in order to avoid putting any words in your mouth.

 

[JeffG]

You said standards would be used, and I was asking what standards you meant. I used XYZ in order to avoid putting any words in your mouth.

I was talking about theoretical Standards for Dive Agency X.

I think any Standards have to have a description of any performance criteria documented. It can't be left to the instructor to decide. If it is...its no different than a "loop holed" standard.

 

[Walter]

the instructor's decision is a best guess that can be trumped by the prosecution's expert witness?

There will be several expert witnesses on both sides of the issue.

 

[boulderjohn]

I was talking about theoretical Standards for Dive Agency X.

I think any Standards have to have a description of any performance criteria documented. It can't be left to the instructor to decide. If it is...its no different than a "loop holed" standard.

There will be several expert witnesses on both sides of the issue.

If the instructor makes his or he own decisions that are outside the standards of the agency, then the instructor can count on the opposition using those standards to question his or her judgment. It will then be up to the instructor to find expert witnesses that will agree that those decisions were acceptable, despite the fact that that there are no standards that support them.

After that, a jury of non-divers will decide the instructor's fate.

I think that might be why a lot of of instructors prefer to instruct within their agency's standards.

 

[Walter]

I think that might be why a lot of of instructors prefer to instruct within their agency's standards.

Having the agency there giving supporting testimony explaining why it is within agency standards would be very helpful.

 

[The Chairman]

Imagine what has changed since DCBC quit PADI.

They invented the regulator? I'm just asking!

 

[boulderjohn]

Having the agency there giving supporting testimony explaining why it is within agency standards would be very helpful.

Absolutely. If you were within standards they will be right there saying so. If you were not within standards, you won't see them. Then you will be on your own to find people who will say that your independent decisions on what should be taught were valid.

 

[JeffG]

they invented the regulator? I'm just asking! :d

lol..