The Overhead Question

[pipedope]

Cave diving without training is possible but not a good idea.

Many caves are controlled and you must show the card to get in. Most cave divers are picky and protective so they will want to see both a card and demonstration of skills.

The problem with learning anything in diving by trial and error (especially cave) is that a high percentage of the errors will get you dead without a good instructor there to help you solve the problem.

I could teach someone to dive in storm drains in a day but I won't. The reason is there is too much to know and do and so many things that have to be automatic. Besides, these days you need a commercial diver card to get hired anyway.

I have learned lots of things by my own trial and error but I find paying someone to teach me the results of LOTS of trials and errors by other people is a very good investment.

 

[Genesis]

Any overhead environment can easily kill you if you do not pay attention to the rules of "safer" diving.

Even if you follow all the rules, you can still die. It is inherently part of diving. Where individual risk computations come into play is properly a matter for the diver(s) involved.

If someone doesn't want to dive with me, that's fine. Most of my wreck diving, including penetration dives, are done solo anyway.

 

[JDostal]

Back to the original part of this discussion, I'm both cave and ice certified. I've done limited wreck penetrations, but am looking forward to using my cave skills to enhance my wreck diving.

And ice...eh...not really an overhead. I mean, technically, it is...but you are tied to a rope with a big hole in the ice. You don't really use any overhead skills in ice diving - no propulsion techniques, buoyancy perfection, trim perfection, reel use, gas management, etc. If you get in trouble just start tugging on the rope hard and they pull you in.

 

[Diver0001]

Just a thought here. How many divers are wreck, cave/cavern and Ice divers. OR any combination of the above. I do all three disciplines and enjoy each and everyone of them. I haven't had much chamce over the last few years to do ice but I will get back to it. How about you?

I enjoy diving in caverns but I've never been in a cave (on scuba). I can see the allure of cave diving but to me the risks outweigh the rewards. The idea also makes my wife really uncomfortable and since she asked me not to do it and since I'm not really that interested anyway it's off the list.

I have done a lot of wreck diving. Typically I look for nice swim-throughs and the impressive angles on the outside of the wreck that give you the sense of how massive they are. Actually mounting a significant penetration would require me to be looking for something in particular; otherwise it's too much bother.... Wreck diving is also an excuse for me to do some technical nitrox dives. This is something new for me but I guess you can call deco diving an type of overhead too.

Oddly I may be one of the few Canadians who has never been ice diving. I've done almost all of my diving in teh ocean. I'd like to try ice diving some time.

R..

 

[DA Aquamaster]

And ice...eh...not really an overhead. I mean, technically, it is...but you are tied to a rope with a big hole in the ice. You don't really use any overhead skills in ice diving - no propulsion techniques, buoyancy perfection, trim perfection, reel use, gas management, etc. If you get in trouble just start tugging on the rope hard and they pull you in.

Well not aways....I mean we went to an unfamiliar lake once and spent way too much time setting up and then cutting the hole in the snow covered ice in what looked like a good spot. Then in the process of shoving the triangular chunk of ice under the ice we discovered we had about 18 inches of now very muddy water between the ice and the bottom. Not exactly a shining monent in my diving career but one where side mounting and other cave techniques may have come in handy.

 

[JDostal]

Well not aways....I mean we went to an unfamiliar lake once and spent way too much time setting up and then cutting the hole in the snow covered ice in what looked like a good spot. Then in the process of shoving the triangular chunk of ice under the ice we discovered we had about 18 inches of now very muddy water between the ice and the bottom. Not exactly a shining monent in my diving career but one where side mounting and other cave techniques may have come in handy.

LOL!

I hate using that abbreviation...but dang....you seriously just made me laugh.

Hah!!! That's just too funny.

I've screwed up on the hole a few times and had to dive some pretty boring "mud flats". But I've never turned an ice dive into a sidemount dive before...hah.

Thanks for the laugh - you're going to have to come over by me sometime and do some icediving on our deep lakes. At least we know that we're cutting the hole in 150' of water

And I'm just giving you a hard time too - not trying to sound mean or anything. The written medium doesn't carry humour all that well sometimes.

 

[GDI]

Well not aways....I mean we went to an unfamiliar lake once and spent way too much time setting up and then cutting the hole in the snow covered ice in what looked like a good spot. Then in the process of shoving the triangular chunk of ice under the ice we discovered we had about 18 inches of now very muddy water between the ice and the bottom. Not exactly a shining monent in my diving career but one where side mounting and other cave techniques may have come in handy.

You think pull and glide and low viz training would also of helped here? That sucks big time man

 

[Ryukyu-diver]

Yeah, well, the first rule of mixing gas is not to do it without "formal training" too, and I've yet to blow up; the desires of some here notwithstanding.

Of course EVERY agency says "no solo" too, but gee, an awful lot of people ignore THAT "mandate" too.....

SDI teaches Solo...just in case anyone was looking for this training. But, to answer the post...a lot cave/cavern diving back in Okinawa and a few wreck dives in NC.

 

[Wijbrandus]

What's the story on Sheck?

I must be too new to the boards to know what everyone is talking about. I read these sections because I want to learn about Tek diving, but I'm nowhere near ready for it.

 

[JDostal]

Sheck is Sheck Exley - a pioneer in cave exploration cave diving safety. He wrote a book called Basic Cave Diving - A Blueprint For Survival. While some of the equipment considerations in the book are getting a little out of date, the guidelines that he wrote are kind of like the ten commandments for cave diving - it's the essence of why people die in caves. They break these few simple rules....

The book is good - I finally picked up a copy myself and it's a good little read.