The new Freedom Contour - The Rolex of backplates.

[buddhasummer]

I've wanted one of these plates since about 2007 when I started stalking Eric. For one reason or another it never happened. I still want one but with a baby on the way money is tight. Will try to sell something. I really want one. Anyone want an AGIR 2.8kg plate?

 

[poomero]

Yeah I cant wait to use it. I have dove with one before and it was a great back plate. I have my AOW class next weekend and I plan on using it there. I will report back with how it does.

 

[DiamondD]

Eric,

I would sure like to buy one of these Contour Plates. I am 5'4" and 160#s. Stocky not chubby. Which size do I need and where can I order it from?

Thanks,
Dean

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Eric,

I would sure like to buy one of these Contour Plates. I am 5'4" and 160#s. Stocky not chubby. Which size do I need and where can I order it from?

Thanks,
Dean

Unfortunately I'm completely out right now of all models.
But like I've been telling people responding to pm's, hang on because I have a design I'm working on that will be contoured with the famous cut away sides for comfort, plus it will be able to use a STA and use doubles.

 

[metalheart]

Hi,

I have been on hiatus from diving regularly, but I have started again, just returned from Cozumel and have a Belize trip planned. When I was diving more regularly, I invested in what I believe is one of the original Freedom Plates (serial number 0107) that I use with an Oxycheq 18 pound wing and I just do warm water diving. The plate suits my diving style well, not much bulk and lots of "freedom" while in the water. The plate always gets lots of attention because of its look and style. Maybe I need to upgrade to the new one?

Also, just curious if it is possible to polish my existing plate to a mirror finish with a commercial polish and buffer?

Thanks......

 

[TotDoc]

Unfortunately I'm completely out right now of all models.
But like I've been telling people responding to pm's, hang on because I have a design I'm working on that will be contoured with the famous cut away sides for comfort, plus it will be able to use a STA and use doubles.

Now THAT is interesting...

 

[Diving Dubai]

I may need - well not need, want to move back to a plate for my drysuit. I dive a none plated wing (transpac XT with voyager wing) and a big 15l steel cylinder -purely because I like the freedom to hang out deep (30-40m) if the conditions and life warrant it - normally hunting mola mola and the like.

with a 3mm I dive zero weight last year in my 7m i had 8lbs on my cam bands

If Eric is cooking up a new plate I might be of interest. Much as I dislike the plastic buckles on my harness i like the waist belt that has backpack style load spreaders to put the tank weight on my hips whilst on a boat. I suffered a back injury 2 years ago and while it's all fixed I am a bit cautious. If Eric can cook a hybrid up for me....

 

[stuartv]

I know this thread is old, but it still seems like the right place for this question. And, anyone who reads my question and thinks "what's a Freedom plate" can just go back to page 1 and learn all about it.

My new Freedom plate is on its way and I am contemplating how I want to rig it. Specifically, do I need to put a crotch strap on it?

I read a post from Eric earlier in this thread that discussed it. He said if you rig it for the shoulder/waist straps to be adjustable, then a crotch strap will keep the rig from gradually tightening up and eventually having the tank hitting you in the back of the head.

That made it occur to me that there are 4 ways that I can think of to rig it:

1) no keepers (tri-slides) on the shoulder/waist webbing. Leaves it totally adjustable.
2) a keeper on the back side, between the slots for where the shoulder strap makes a U-turn and becomes the waist belt, that keeps the shoulder/waist webbing from moving in either direction.
3) a keeper on the front, on the waist belt. This would keep the shoulder straps from pulling loose at all but you could pull on the waist belt to tighten it up. This would make it easier to setup for wearing over a drysuit, but still allow you to tighten it down over a thin wetsuit (or no suit).
4) a keeper on the front, on the bottom of the shoulder strap. This would keep the shoulder straps from tightening up any, but still let you pull them loose to make it easier to don/doff and/or easier to loosen up to fit over, say, a drysuit.

#s 2 and 4 both seem like they would let you tighten the waist belt as tight as you like without affecting the shoulder straps. So, either of these would be good for using it with no crotch strap. Especially if you're shaped like me where there is a bulge just above the waist strap to keep the rig from riding up (as long as the waist belt is tight enough). :-\

#s 1 and 3 seem like they would kind of make a crotch strap a necessity to keep it from riding up and/or keep the shoulder straps from doing what Eric described in his earlier post.

So, anybody got a thought on what way to do this that works well? I'm kinda thinking it might be nice to set up my new rig with no crotch strap. But, I do *have* a crotch strap I can put on if it really makes a difference. Thus, maybe I'll just have to try it and see. Still figured I'd ask for other experiences.

 

[lowviz]

@stuartv

I keep a growing collection of how to rig FP's. I posted this on SB before, but best if I just copy and paste for your enjoyment: (BTW, yes, you WANT a crotch strap.)



Eric Sedletzky’s PM to me:

Sure it's easy.

First, get a length of 2" webbing at least 10' long, you might want to go 11' or even 12' depending on your size.

Second, fold the webbing in half and through the front of the plate, put one end through the bottom slot and the other through the middle slot, this is on the top portion of the plate. Then evenly pull both ends until the webbing is pulled through and tight. Then take both ends and run them through the top slot from back out through the front. When you get it pulled tight you can pull the ends out sideways so they are spread out forming a "V". Just make sure the straps come out of the top slot on the front side.

For the side waist slots, the one coming down from your shoulders should go into the inside slot from the front, wrap around that little welded on bar around the back, and come out the outside slot. You can place a keeper on the webbing on the back in between the two slots if you want it "locked up", or you can leave it out so it slides and remains adjustable.

Then, you can place D-rings where ever you want. Some people put one on the front of each shoulder, just make sure you do this before you lace up the side slots.

That plate was modified to work with a Mach V wing, that's why it has the welded on rail. The old cam slots on the top of the plate were welded up and the lower outside cam slots are original.

It had a little stand-off bracket at the base which was removed. I had to do some heavy mods to retrofit it for the Mach V.

Then to use the wing you simply sandwich the wing between the plate and tank and everything is secure when you cinch it up.

Hope all this helps and is clear.

Thanks
Eric
…………………
Rollers, uncfnp’s thread:
http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ad...cd-bpw-evolution-post6985027.html#post6985027
…………………
Yes the webbing will slide in the waist band slots. I've rounded over the slots enough that it works fairly well. I've experimented with this style of setup for quite a few dives, but I have noticed that with suit compression (I dive wet) that the waist strap loosens and by continously tightening it, it tends to keep drawing more webbing through the slots and making the shoulder straps tighter and tighter. To prevents this incremental and eventual over tightening I concluded that either using a crotch strap to keep the waist strap down and from continually climbing or placing a keeper on the upper side of the waist slot webbing so the webbing can only be cinched so far to a pre set position is the solution.
Personally, after trying all sorts of combos with the adjustable cinch method I went back to a preset position with the webbing and the use of the crotch strap to keep everything down and to keep the rig from climbing up.
I practice more of a freestyle of diving where I decend head first like old school methods and or like a freediver, and the crotch strap keeps everything in place as I'm inverted.

The softer webbing would more than likely be the stuff you would get at any LDS that sells length for weight belts. They probably get it from Trident in rolls and that's the softer stuff we've been talking about. That's where I used to get it was from Trident. It's not super soft but it is noticably softer than what you would get in an Oxycheq kit for instance.

Hope this helps.

Cheers
………………………………………………………
Hello Eric,
In the quote below where you describe placement of the keeper, do you mean that it is best placed on what I would term the "body side" of the plate, that is the side with the number of the plate and USA? Or is it best placed on "seaside" of the plate where the wing is?
Thanks
JR
In most cases it would be placed on the wing side of the plate, not the side that rests against your back. If you have the webbing reversed so that to place a keeper between the two slots it would be on the inside (the outside method), then I would recommend placing the keeper on the waist strap in front of the exit slot. This would keep the webbing from backing up too far. It's also possible to place another keeper on the shoulder strap right above where it goes into the angled slot. This would keep the webbing from adjusting up too tight. The range for adjustment could be kept at 3 to 4 inches this way.
You just have to try both methods and see what you like best. Have some fun with it and try all the different methods.

Right, I understand that. I was just wondering if the rail that comes on the Freedom Plate might could be removed and used in place of an STA to simply hold the setup together firmly. I know the hole centers are 9" for the plate and 11" for the wing, just wondering if it would be possible to modify holes in one or the other to line up the two?
1) The rail is designed to be mounted directly to the plate and the rail and plate make up a solid unit. The wing goes over the rail then the tank over the wing. The entire unit gets held together by pressure from the cam bands.

2) The rail is designed to be mounted directly to the plate and the rail and plate make up a solid unit. The wing goes over the rail then the tank over the wing. The entire unit gets held together by pressure from the cam bands.

3) The rail is designed to be mounted directly to the plate and the rail and plate make up a solid unit. The wing goes over the rail then the tank over the wing. The entire unit gets held together by pressure from the cam bands.

One correction and for future reference:

There is no such thing as 9" center holes on a Freedom Plate, they do not exist.
The holes are actually 5.5" center holes and are 3/16" countersunk holes to accept 2 - #10 x 32 stainless screws which sole purpose is to attach the rail and hold it in place for alignment until the cam bands can be torqued down to hold the rig together.

The individual that claimed the Freedom Plate has 9" holes and accepts sex bolts is grossly mistaken, and which statement also gives me further proof that said individual never actually physically saw a Freedom Plate to know this fact.
Unless of course the plate was modified by somebody at which point I have no control over it or the results.

I am tempted to begin welding the rails back onto the Freedom Plate to eliminate this never ending debate and solve the "Do I put the wing between plate and the rail" question.
It might be easier to just let people special order a plate directly from me with a removable rail so I can explain it over the phone.

I dunno, I thought he removable rail was a bonus in that it can be removed to lighten the plate by a pound for travel, or to get the tank as absolutely as close as possible to the divers back by using it sans rail. Some people like different heights of rails for different applications such as using a PRAM - which requires an additional 3/4" of clearance between the can and the plate, but maybe those days need to be gone.

I going to have to decide what to do because this is driving me nuts.
…………………………………………………….

 

[lowviz]

I only get 10K characters per post so here is the rest:

From ScubaToys:

The Freedom Plate is a single tank plate designed similar to a vintage style plate with cut away sides where your shoulder blades are for a super close and comfortable fit. The lower sides of the Freedom Plate flare out for tank stability and also for added weight. The two shoulder straps come out of a singe point at the top for a very comfortable and snug fit over your shoulders. A regular piece of 2" webbing HOG style can be used for a harness with d rings exactly like a regular Back plate.

The plate comes with a tank rail which holds the tank slightly away from the plate at the bottom so the plate can follow the contours of your lower back better. The rail of theFreedom Plate can also be filled with lead for an additional 3 to 4 lbs. The Freedom Platecan be used without the rail so the tank sits absolutely flat on the plate and your back, note the curved tank cradle area down by the crotch strap on the plate. Using the plate without the rail works well with very large tanks or for extreme minimalist diving or for travel.
 Height 15 Inches
 Width at base 12 Inches
 Weight without rail 3lbs. 2oz.
 Weight with rail 4lbs. 2oz.
 All slots and edges completely rounded over and deburred.
…………………………………………………………
The new Freedom Contour - The Rolex of backplates.
I've been working on my latest Freedom Plate model and I'm calling it the Freedom Contour.
Nobody else that I know of has even come close to something as cool as this!011.jpg012.jpg021.jpg013.jpg022.jpg019.jpg

Basically what I did was look at one of the old plastic or fiberglass backpacks from back in the day and I was admiring how the edges all the way around were rolled and turned away from the divers back.
I thought "What if there was a way to do this with 10 GA (1/8") stainless; to curve the entire perimeter of the plate and also shape it just like I have in the past to fit the curves of a persons back.
Well I did it!
I managed to multi compound shape the brand new Freedom Plate.

They will be available in two sizes, small and the original full size large.

These new plates have been taken to a whole new level, but they're not easy to make.
They take substantially more time to shape. I have to beat on them with special shaping hammers on an anvil horn and slowly begin to move the metal around where it needs to be.
It reminds me of shaping steel making fenders and other compound curved items from flat stock back in my auto body custom days.
Each one of these is a one-off custom shaped plate - even more so than before.

I upgraded the material to 316 for all the components including the filler rod for the tig welded parts.
Instead of a rail I went to two 5/16" rods to hold the tank because the plate is so radically shaped there was no way to attach a flat piece of channel like I had before. The plate needs to independent of the tank holding system.
think this is simpler and I like the airy breathability of a more open design.
The wing slots are slightly longer now too so that it will accommodate any wing with slots.
I think even wings with no slots could be modified by the user installing their own slots to use with the plate.
All other slots are about the same as models past.
The small plate will weigh in at just over 3 lbs. and the large plate will weigh in at just over 4 lbs.

The plate is still in the testing phase right now.
I still need to dive it and make sure the rod rails are set at the correct height and will work well, blah blah blah.
With all the edges rolled outwards this will also be one of the most drysuit friendly and t-shirt friendly plates out there.
These plates, for those that are not familiar with them, are single tank only plates. My idea was to design the ultimate single tankplate since over 90% of people using BP/W are using them with single tanks.

I have to warn you though, these things aren't going to be cheap.
Stainless prices have gone up, plus I'm upgrading to 316 from 304, and the added time it takes to shape them to what they are makes them a custom piece of art.
There will be a few options with finish. The satin finish is the easiest and requires the least amount of time to produce.
Polished plates take a lot more time because polishing shows every scratch and flaw so the sanding has to be thorough before polishing.

I still have not determined what the prices will be. I'm still in the timing phase to see exactly what I'm going to be in them before I can set a price. Whatever it is though, please contrast this to a new Scubapro regulator, a HID can light, a scooter, or a drysuit, or even wings for that matter, it probably wont be that bad.

Being that these will be to order, I have the ability to shape them to any body.

………………………………….

They are designed for any type diving.
I dive in 47 degree water, sometimes wearing a 1/2" wetsuit and I'm using the large plate no problem. I also use two different 7mm suits and have no problems.
My thinking is that people dive cold water with thick wetsuits or drysuits wearing conventional jacket style BC's all the time which have no added ballast. In fact, they require added weight just to offset the buoyancy of themselves.
So using a 4 lb plate is a bonus. Other plates generally run 6 lbs. so finding a place to add 2 extra lbs. to me shouldn't be a big deal. Usually putting it on the weightbelt is what people do. Some other people may thread a couple of 2 Lb. weights onto the lower camband and tuck them in close to the sides between the tank and plate. I also advocate using heavy steel tanks and upgrading other components like the cam buckles to stainless which helps.

Part of the thing with the whole Freedom Plate concept is ergonomic comfort. A large part of that design was to remove the material that interferes with the movement of the shoulder blades and allows the plate to drop down into the valley of the back channel. Removing some material means that some weight was lost on the plate. However, the benefits of losing a little built in ballast on the plate vs the increased comfort, I'll take the comfort and streamlining first and figure out where to put the weight later. A non issue for me.
Gear items that sit closest to your body and affect physical comfort are the first things people think about.
Masks, reg mouth pieces, exposure protection, fit of the tank/rig, and fins are the big ones.
Things like reg 1st stages, wings (because they're back there just doing their job), and other items that don't affect physical comfort are not thought of as much even though they do play a role.

The comfort of a backplate is something people don't really think about or know about until they try a pack that is actually designed to fit the contours of the back. Then once they realize just how big of a difference a form fitting plate can make they have a tough time going back. I've seen this with going to a regular BP/W from jackets, and now from regular backplates to this one.

The thing is, all the other companies are just making different versions of the same squarish tech style plate which was designed originally for doubles, and they're trying to do whatever it takes to make them work (better) for singles - since the single tank rig is over 90% of the market.
Nobody has any imagination or is/was willing to step out of the box and try something different, until I came along.
So now people have another option.

………………………………..

More from Eric:

Actually, within the BP/W group there are four separate divisions as I see it.
First there's the "DIR", "Hogarthian" camp which goes up from rec into cave/tech, etc. They have all their gear/training protocols and certain ways of doing things, high emphasis on team diving, etc.

Then there's the vintage group which also dives minimalistic rigs (plates and backpacks) but they try to use period vintage gear. They are characterized mostly by the use of double hose regs and no BC (how they dove "back in the day").

Then there are the modern minimalists that are actually a splinter group of the vintage divers. The difference is they are allowed to use all new modern gear and are not limited by whether something is "true" to any particular period, nor do they have any rules with gear choices, or as far as how a DIR setup might need to be, or any other "school". They are characterized by having the appearance that they almost have no gear on. A tank on a plate, no wing, only one second stage, a simple SPG tucked away somewhere, a computer on the wrist, many use long fins. This group mostly uses the configuration for speed and stealth for hunting. It's not particularly useful for instance for photography since it's difficult to position and hover for a shot without the use of a wing.

Then there are the rest of the BP/W users which don't subscribe to any particular internal "camp", they just want to dive and have fun. Their rigs can be a gathering of many different components often seen in a regular recreational rig, but the core is a BP/W.

So it's the above four, and everyone else.
But the above four only make up less than one percent of all divers on the planet.