The massacre begins again

[Mr.X]

Thanks for posting the news Zingtea. It's amazing that such barbaric rituals still occur. Whatever these two small towns & their denizens believe - enough pressure (by their respective government) hasn't been exerted to get them to think otherwise. When enough folks complained to Nissui (Gorton's owner) they divested themselves from their interests in whaling!

Farming cetaceans? Arcane data is being served up to defend what are vicious, bloody and sick fishing practices. Do these rituals need to be conducted anymore? Seems not? Or is it more about saving face at the cost of hurting someone's feeling in the fishing village? Why does this particular government allow their fishing fleets to regularly over harvest?

It all comes down to what a person and culture believes. It's pretty clear to me that many folks do not understand the value of these creatures, nor want to comprehend the emotional connection that some cultures have with marine mammals. If so, Japan, Norway and Iceland would have stopped their slaughter-fests long ago.

A per marine parks...attend parks that practice conservatism only. Not those who hide behind it. As a note I was fired from an aquarium decades ago when I tried to advocate a release program.

X

 

[mislav]

Well, as Kim pointed out - since the demand is global, so is the problem. Dolphin hunts aren't going to stop unless the demand for them or their meat vanishes first.

That global demand won't go away for as long as we continue to pay the tickets to facilities that hold shows with captive cetaceans as Catherine said.

Kim also mentioned how local Japanese fisherman begin to see the light and realize how they'd make more money and friends by organizing a dolphin tours instead of dolphin hunts.

For many of us there really isn't much to do except to sign every petition there is to try to prevent hunts from happening. We may also direct some of our money to organizations that are trying to put an end to this barbarism. Plus, we may also try to be careful enough not to financially support some of the businesses that fuel dolphin hunts. In this day and age, with major pollution (which Kim showed is a huge enemy to all marine life and sadly all of us still contribute to it) and globalization through intertwined intercontinental corporations, this is not a simple task.

Pointing our finger to two small villages in Japan certainly won't save the dolphins. For some, it may be a good place to begin, though. Others help on a different level.

We're all friends here and what we need is to further educate ourselves and help raising the global awareness of ethical and environmental issues.

 

[mislav]

It all comes down to what a person and culture believes. It's pretty clear to me that many folks do not understand the value of these creatures, nor want to comprehend the emotional connection that some cultures have with marine mammals. If so, Japan, Norway and Iceland would have stopped their slaughter-fests long ago.

Which is why I put the word 'ethical' in the last sentence of my previous post.

 

[Mr.X]

For many of us there really isn't much to do except to sign every petition there is to try to prevent hunts from happening. We may also direct some of our money to organizations that are trying to put an end to this barbarism. Plus, we may also try to be careful enough not to financially support some of the businesses that fuel dolphin hunts. In this day and age, with major pollution (which Kim showed is a huge enemy to all marine life and sadly all of us still contribute to it) and globalization through intertwined intercontinental corporations, this is not a simple task.

We're all friends here and what we need is to further educate ourselves and help raising the global awareness of ethical and environmental issues.

Yes. So very true. If the kind folks of the Scubaboard keep sending out emails, and advocate protection, + advice to those willing to listen, it's possible to make headway. It happened with Nissui/Gorton's/Sealord. However, divestment doesn't necessarily mean the end of the whaling. It's just that Nissui doesn't appear to be holding the harpoon anymore.

http://oceans.greenpeace.org/en/the-expedition/news/nissui-sealord-gortons

X

 

[Kim]

- enough pressure (by their respective government) hasn't been exerted to get them to think otherwise.

<snip>

Why does this particular government allow their fishing fleets to regularly over harvest?

I don't want to start another fight on this but I think this is a little over-simplified. Governments can't just pass laws to change really old ideas and expect it to work just like that IMO. Consider the recent anti-fox hunting legislation in the UK for example. The law has been passed and it's been massively ignored or bypassed by 'loopholes'. When people consider something is their 'right' it can be hard to change. Take gun legislation in the US for another example.
For the record - the Japanese government HAS introduced quotas on the dolphin harvest. It's disingenuous to suggest that they just sit back and do nothing. Those limits are probably a far cry from what most would wish for, but they didn't use to exist at all. I also think that claiming they allow their fishing fleets to "over harvest" is inaccurate. There are strong quota limits on fishing in Japan otherwise they wouldn't have any fish left at all. On the other hand - the fishermen are VERY powerful historically. Try diving in Japanese waters and you'll soon find that out! It's really not in Japanese interests to destroy fish stocks. They need sustainability to support their diet. I can't think of anywhere else in the world that eats more fish than here! Considering it's one of the main reasons that they live so long as well....I can hardly blame them!

 

[Mr.X]

I don't want to start another fight on this but I think this is a little over-simplified. Governments can't just pass laws to change really old ideas and expect it to work just like that IMO. Consider the recent anti-fox hunting legislation in the UK for example. The law has been passed and it's been massively ignored or bypassed by 'loopholes'. When people consider something is their 'right' it can be hard to change. Take gun legislation in the US for another example.
For the record - the Japanese government HAS introduced quotas on the dolphin harvest. It's disingenuous to suggest that they just sit back and do nothing. Those limits are probably a far cry from what most would wish for, but they didn't use to exist at all. I also think that claiming they allow their fishing fleets to "over harvest" is inaccurate. There are strong quota limits on fishing in Japan otherwise they wouldn't have any fish left at all. On the other hand - the fishermen are VERY powerful historically. Try diving in Japanese waters and you'll soon find that out! It's really not in Japanese interests to destroy fish stocks. They need sustainability to support their diet. I can't think of anywhere else in the world that eats more fish than here! Considering it's one of the main reasons that they live so long as well....I can hardly blame them!

Very interesting comparison. However, the foxhunt is a different. It's a cruel, caste suggestive, antiquated ritual of its own. Quite suggestive of maintaining social boundaries so important to the "upper class" in the UK. Let&#8217;s not use obfuscation.

Dolphin slaughter in Japan is conducted by two villages? How many folks are actually involved with this? I say just legislate it out. Give them a financial out while you legislate the viciousness out of these white-boot wearing fishermen. Come on'&#8230; we're back at the same point. You defending Japan( as always), and me stating that this government (and some folks) do jack squat. This means doesn't give a "toss".

Here's some info. regarding Bluefin and the "loose" management practiced by the fishermen and government for decades!

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,20588386-1702,00.html

Got to go feed my puppy which I rescued from the pound.

X

 

[Kim]

Very interesting comparison. However, the foxhunt is a different. It's a cruel, caste suggestive, antiquated ritual of its own. Quite suggestive of maintaining social boundaries so important to the "upper class" in the UK. Let&#8217;s not use obfuscation.

Dolphin slaughter in Japan is conducted by two villages? How many folks are actually involved with this? I say just legislate it out. Give them a financial out while you legislate the viciousness out of these white-boot wearing fishermen. Come on'&#8230; we're back at the same point. You defending Japan( as always), and me stating that this government (and some folks) do jack squat. This means doesn't give a "toss".

Here's some info. regarding Bluefin and the "loose" management practised by the fishermen and government for decades!

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,20588386-1702,00.html

Got to go feed my puppy which I rescued from the pound.

X

You are missing the point. I'm not comparing fox-hunting (or US gun legislation) to dolphin hunting. I'm talking about governments legislating things that people consider to be their protected inalienable rights, and how hard and historically ineffective that has often proved to be. I've already said I don't defend or condone dolphin hunting several times in this thread. However - I do think it's odd you keep trying to drag whales into it! (as always...) As for the blue-fin...well the government has accepted fault and a now reduced quota - odd that...not something you see a lot of governments do!
I would like to try and find practical solutions and I think that if people stop paying their money to see dolphin/small whale/orca shows in marine amusement parks it would do a lot more than sign petitions to the Japanese Prime Minister or starting threads with "massacre" in the title!
By the way...I don't seek to defend the Japanese more than against blatant biased attacks, I do think it's sensible to try to see things from the opposing point of view if you want to find ways to effect change. This understanding of the problem strikes me as rather important if you genuinely want to communicate rather than simply blame. I find this understanding lacking in most of your posts.

 

[Zingtea]

I do think it's odd you keep trying to drag whales into it!

Dolphins are whales! They're toothed whales; they just aren't as big as the species we tend to call "whales" (e.g. sperm whales, beaked whales, etc).
It really bugs me how some people call whaling, sealing and dolphin hunting a "harvest". That's making marine mammals sound like corn or bananas or something instead of sentient creatures.
BTW I was 12 the last time I visited a marine park, and that was/is the last time ever.

 

[Zingtea]

More news. Shortly after Iceland openly defied the IWC's moratorium on commercial whaling (before they were just whaling for "research") this month, they killed their first endangered fin whale. Iceland, Japan and Norway are not only members of the IWC but are also member nations of CITES. There's got to to be some way to crack down high-seas poaching.

 

[REII]

More news. Shortly after Iceland openly defied the IWC's moratorium on commercial whaling (before they were just whaling for "research") this month, they killed their first endangered fin whale. Iceland, Japan and Norway are not only members of the IWC but are also member nations of CITES. There's got to to be some way to crack down high-seas poaching.

I just read that as well.

I am shocked that this is going on. It may take time for the governments to forge change, but something has to be done.

TOM