Gilldiver
Contributor
I do the same and it should be OK. I just don't Know it is OK.
The latest technical diving regulator the Phoenix
- Thread starter Luis H
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OP
I have been looking for some pictures showing a long hose (DIR style) alternate stored away while using a re-breather, but have not found anything that is very clear.
Here is a link to Halcyon re-breather web site. It has some good general information, but not what I am looking for.
Halcyon: RB80 Rebreather Introduction
Any ideas? I probably should post this question in the DIR or general technical diving section.
This link has the best picture I have seen and it seems as the long hose may be wrapped in the normal Hogarthian configuration, but that doesn’t make sense with a re-breather or double hose regulator.
Halcyon: Rebreather Design History
Note: It is obvious that this is not a vintage configuration, but I am using as much vintage equipment as I can adapt in a reasonable extended range (technical diving) situation.
Here is a link to Halcyon re-breather web site. It has some good general information, but not what I am looking for.
Halcyon: RB80 Rebreather Introduction
Any ideas? I probably should post this question in the DIR or general technical diving section.
This link has the best picture I have seen and it seems as the long hose may be wrapped in the normal Hogarthian configuration, but that doesn’t make sense with a re-breather or double hose regulator.
Halcyon: Rebreather Design History
Note: It is obvious that this is not a vintage configuration, but I am using as much vintage equipment as I can adapt in a reasonable extended range (technical diving) situation.
Gilldiver
Contributor
I have tried doing the long hose a few times but it is just clumsy. If I do the neck wrap, then to donate the long hose you would need to:
1) give it to the other diver and get them down from any panic (its tight on me but it can be done)
2) Take the double hose out of you mouth and raise it up
3) Clear the long hose from around your neck and go back onto the double hose
Most of the rebreather guys I know take a bail out bottle as a stage. This stage is then able to be used by the diver as his/her backup or be handed off to the buddy. For double hose "Tech Diving", if both buddies have a similar bail out bottle, then passing off of the long hose is not a problem as both have a bail out and the back up reg can be set on a short hose for your use only.
Last, the final option if all goes South on you in open water diving where there is no physical overhead, like a wreck or cave, is to go onto a deco gas at a max of 2 times the MOD as long as you are heading up to the MOD. So you can go onto 50% at 140 feet as long as you are heading up to 70 feet as quickly as you can. The time of exposure at greater then 1.6ATM O2 should be 1 to 2 minutes.
This is not an option in a cave or wreck where any applicable amount of time is needed at depth to reach the MOD like a 20 minute swim back to a cave opening.
1) give it to the other diver and get them down from any panic (its tight on me but it can be done)
2) Take the double hose out of you mouth and raise it up
3) Clear the long hose from around your neck and go back onto the double hose
Most of the rebreather guys I know take a bail out bottle as a stage. This stage is then able to be used by the diver as his/her backup or be handed off to the buddy. For double hose "Tech Diving", if both buddies have a similar bail out bottle, then passing off of the long hose is not a problem as both have a bail out and the back up reg can be set on a short hose for your use only.
Last, the final option if all goes South on you in open water diving where there is no physical overhead, like a wreck or cave, is to go onto a deco gas at a max of 2 times the MOD as long as you are heading up to the MOD. So you can go onto 50% at 140 feet as long as you are heading up to 70 feet as quickly as you can. The time of exposure at greater then 1.6ATM O2 should be 1 to 2 minutes.
This is not an option in a cave or wreck where any applicable amount of time is needed at depth to reach the MOD like a 20 minute swim back to a cave opening.
I also have tried a DIR method long hose, both 5 and 7 foot with my PRAM. It does not work, already stated that in a thread previous, if the hose is wrapped as is current fashion. However, if you stow the hose in a loop as we did in the olden days of cave diving and the second stage clipped to the RH D ring (or bungeed at the neck) you can get a functional set up. To do this a piece of bungee material is placed around the tank, then you tuck the loop of hose through the bungee.
You cannot use the current DIR wrap method around the neck because the long hose is under the double hose hoses and cannot be deployed with out flipping the double hose mouthpiece up over your head--that is just not an acceptable method IMO because now you have two divers with no air as you wrestle around trying to deploy the long hose. This is an example of adopting a method or practice from one style of diving to another and it creating a problem that does not exist in the original application.
DIR donates and breaths the long hose as primary then the donating diver switches to the bungeed short hose second, we would be breathing our double hose as primary and donating the long hose which is the more conventional method of OOA donation.
For the last three years I have been using variously a 40 inch/five or seven foot octopus, the loop is tucked into a bungee on my tank as I did in the 70s with the exception that the 40 inch hose does not require being tucked under a bungee on the tank, a five foot can also be stuck under the weight belt. Actually this is the way I have done it forever.
BTW, in the olden days when we used independent doubles we had two long hoses, they were both bungeed to the tank left or right depending on their source tank.
N
You cannot use the current DIR wrap method around the neck because the long hose is under the double hose hoses and cannot be deployed with out flipping the double hose mouthpiece up over your head--that is just not an acceptable method IMO because now you have two divers with no air as you wrestle around trying to deploy the long hose. This is an example of adopting a method or practice from one style of diving to another and it creating a problem that does not exist in the original application.
DIR donates and breaths the long hose as primary then the donating diver switches to the bungeed short hose second, we would be breathing our double hose as primary and donating the long hose which is the more conventional method of OOA donation.
For the last three years I have been using variously a 40 inch/five or seven foot octopus, the loop is tucked into a bungee on my tank as I did in the 70s with the exception that the 40 inch hose does not require being tucked under a bungee on the tank, a five foot can also be stuck under the weight belt. Actually this is the way I have done it forever.
BTW, in the olden days when we used independent doubles we had two long hoses, they were both bungeed to the tank left or right depending on their source tank.
N
OP
Wrapping a long hose alternate around my neck doesn’t seem practical with a double hose primary.
I tried tucking the excess hose of my 48” alternate under my waist belt and that seems to work. I am going to try a 5 ft hose in the same fashion. It should work even better, but I think anything longer would be a bit harder to deal with in this configuration.
I don’t really need a 7 ft hose for this situation, a 5 ft should work well.
The problem I see with the bungeed hose on the tank is the difficulty in putting it away by myself. It may not be too bad with bare hands, but everything is a bit more difficult with 5mm gloves if you have to do it by feel.
With my low profile Atomic mask I can see everything on my chest. I can do quite a bit with my heavy gloves, but if I can see what I am doing it is always better.
I tried tucking the excess hose of my 48” alternate under my waist belt and that seems to work. I am going to try a 5 ft hose in the same fashion. It should work even better, but I think anything longer would be a bit harder to deal with in this configuration.
I don’t really need a 7 ft hose for this situation, a 5 ft should work well.
The problem I see with the bungeed hose on the tank is the difficulty in putting it away by myself. It may not be too bad with bare hands, but everything is a bit more difficult with 5mm gloves if you have to do it by feel.
With my low profile Atomic mask I can see everything on my chest. I can do quite a bit with my heavy gloves, but if I can see what I am doing it is always better.
A long hose bungeed on the tank was and is difficult to stow after deployment, most often the buddy would have to assist. This is why this method is no longer used widely.
N
N
I'm not a cave diver, and so have never had a use for a long octopus hose, but it seems to me you might want to seriously rethink this sequence. I mean, I know I wouldn't want some guy tugging on ANY hose while it was still around MY neck! Get that sucker off your neck FIRST, THEN give it to the poor sap, methinks.
Gilldiver
Contributor
Ah, you have never been in the water with a panicked diver. They will not come up to you and politely say "Oh my, I am a bit short on air, would you mind giving me some?" - they take what you have as fast as they can.
Which is what I was getting at, if you have a 5' or 7' hose you can hand it off but there are problems, like is the regulator on a necklace or hanging free? It is easier with the 7' hose as you can get 2 feet or so clear before it gets tight, but it is not the way to plan for a contingency.
Using a bail out 30 or 40 stage is the way to go. I can donate it quicker then a long hose without any hassles. If you both have a bail out bottle, then there should be no hassles, unless it comes out of the blue from another diver who was not part of your team.
Which is what I was getting at, if you have a 5' or 7' hose you can hand it off but there are problems, like is the regulator on a necklace or hanging free? It is easier with the 7' hose as you can get 2 feet or so clear before it gets tight, but it is not the way to plan for a contingency.
Using a bail out 30 or 40 stage is the way to go. I can donate it quicker then a long hose without any hassles. If you both have a bail out bottle, then there should be no hassles, unless it comes out of the blue from another diver who was not part of your team.
I have never used a Bailout bottle. But I had the same essential question as Luis. And after much debate and reading. I'm thinking a 30 or 40 is the way to go. Nothing on the Ram but a spg and total redundancy with the Bailout. Plus if the buddy wont calm down you can hand off the Bail out and move away...
OP
In this situation I will be carrying an 80 cu ft stage bottle with higher O2 than my bottom gas. Therefore, I am not planning on an extra bail out bottle.
As you can see from the pictures of my doubles, I am using two totally independent regulators on the Sherwood manifold. The single hose has a second stage on a 48 inch hose at this point and it has worked out fine, but I am going to try a 5 ft hose.
I use a figure 8 snorkel holders on my right shoulder D ring to hold the alternate second stage and it has always been very secure, but I can still deploy it faster than the other guys in the group.
I have tried many different ways of securing a second stage with the ability of quick deployment and the snorkel holder so far has been by far the best so far it has been 100% reliable in security and quick deployment when needed.
Stowing the extra length of hose is what I have to work out with a reliable user friendly system. I think the under the waist belt is going to work fine.
As mentioned before, a panicked diver is just going to reach for something. I just hope that my very visible shiny second stage is more appealing than the strange double hose and mouthpiece in my mouth. They wont know what to do with that.
As you can see from the pictures of my doubles, I am using two totally independent regulators on the Sherwood manifold. The single hose has a second stage on a 48 inch hose at this point and it has worked out fine, but I am going to try a 5 ft hose.
I use a figure 8 snorkel holders on my right shoulder D ring to hold the alternate second stage and it has always been very secure, but I can still deploy it faster than the other guys in the group.
I have tried many different ways of securing a second stage with the ability of quick deployment and the snorkel holder so far has been by far the best so far it has been 100% reliable in security and quick deployment when needed.
Stowing the extra length of hose is what I have to work out with a reliable user friendly system. I think the under the waist belt is going to work fine.
As mentioned before, a panicked diver is just going to reach for something. I just hope that my very visible shiny second stage is more appealing than the strange double hose and mouthpiece in my mouth. They wont know what to do with that.
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