UTD has an e-learning component which is mandatory, but requires tables.
The internet and PDCS: Where does your agency stand?
- Thread starter The Chairman
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OP
The info has been added.
I thought that it was on topic. You asked a question and I answered it. I also gave the reasons for my answer. And I did not make any assertion my training is superior just that it is different and people see those differences and draw their own conclusions. But I do aplogize. From now on Yes and No answers only.
OP
Dang Jim,
You never told us WHY you oppose e-learning or why you require tables for that fact. That would be way on topic. I would love to hear that from you. You can be for "increased standards" and use e-learning and PDCs only for that matter. I want to focus on those two items.
To be sure, it's fairly obvious to me that e-learning presents a far more balanced and consistent academic basis. You don't have to worry about a tired or lazy instructor cutting corners or teaching to the test. You also have an excellent defense in court about whether a subject was covered adequately or not. Most of the arguments I have seen for face to face teaching revolve around egos and holding on to older more antiquated paradigms of instruction. Having them learn on-line frees up more of my time for in-water instruction as well. That allows me to concentrate more on their actual skills.
As for tables, I simply see teaching them rather than how to use a PDC as a disservice to the student. We should be teaching them how to dive with the equipment that they will probably be using MOST OF THE TIME. Most of the divers here in Florida have a PDC strapped to their wrist and can seldom be found with tables at all. Since both PDCs and tables are derived from the same formulae, assumptions and inferences, it seems that forcing tables adds a level of complexity that many students find abhorrent. While some see learning the tables as some right of passage for the newbie diver, I prefer to get them acclimated to the instrument of choice for the average OW diver.
You never told us WHY you oppose e-learning or why you require tables for that fact. That would be way on topic. I would love to hear that from you. You can be for "increased standards" and use e-learning and PDCs only for that matter. I want to focus on those two items.
To be sure, it's fairly obvious to me that e-learning presents a far more balanced and consistent academic basis. You don't have to worry about a tired or lazy instructor cutting corners or teaching to the test. You also have an excellent defense in court about whether a subject was covered adequately or not. Most of the arguments I have seen for face to face teaching revolve around egos and holding on to older more antiquated paradigms of instruction. Having them learn on-line frees up more of my time for in-water instruction as well. That allows me to concentrate more on their actual skills.
As for tables, I simply see teaching them rather than how to use a PDC as a disservice to the student. We should be teaching them how to dive with the equipment that they will probably be using MOST OF THE TIME. Most of the divers here in Florida have a PDC strapped to their wrist and can seldom be found with tables at all. Since both PDCs and tables are derived from the same formulae, assumptions and inferences, it seems that forcing tables adds a level of complexity that many students find abhorrent. While some see learning the tables as some right of passage for the newbie diver, I prefer to get them acclimated to the instrument of choice for the average OW diver.
Fair enough. My opposition to elearning is based on the fact that I like to be able to see the faces of my students as I'm presenting the information. I also like to know that everything that is supposed to be covered is. And I will admit that in my own case as an OW diver before elearning was available, and yes I most likely would have done it not knowing anything, I rushed through the home study portions. Two weeks after my checkouts I;d forgotten a lot. Including how to thoroughly plan a dive which is where the tables came in. I wish I would have had an instructor that was able to slow me down. I saw many students after that in the same boat as a DM candidate.
My personal belief is that tables do give a better idea of the on gassing and off gassing process and helps the student understand why there are limits and be able to think for themselves what their own limits are and why. My computer will give me the max NDL for the first dive, second, etc. What SI I need.
But it does not allow me before hand to enter the times I want to dive or tell me what my pressure group is at some midpoint. Not without pressing a bunch of buttons and taking a chance on having to start over etc. Tables give the student instant feedback and they are quick, easy, and don't die. I can run over my tables with my truck. They stillwork. Can't say the same for my comp. My last opposition to dive computers for new divers is based on my personal experience and that of others, including the CEO of my agency and he describes it in his new book, of diving with a computer for the first time. I did get mine early on. And one of the things I found myself doing was diving and pushing the computer close to the limits. This is again a judgment and yes training issue. Had an instructor taken or had the time to really drive home the importance of staying conservative without taking the fun out of diving (and it is possible to do so) I may not have taken some of the chances I did and reinforce that a computer is NO substitute for the brain and some common sense. I have to do 16 hours in the classroom. I have the time to do that.
With tables there is an assumed square profile based on the deepest depth of the dive and I do not see anything wrong with that for new divers. Heck some may actually run low on air before hitting the NDL's so no big deal. But as I got more comfortable my air consumption improved and soon those little yellow dots were being lit up before my SPG was telling me it was time to go. I dive an Oceanic comp which has a pretty liberal algorithm. Nothing bad happened. But it could have had I had something that made me more susceptible to a decompression related issue. And I believe that new divers should stay on the conservative side until they, through experience, find that perhaps they can be a bit more aggressive. Staying with tables pretty much requires them to do so.
My personal belief is that tables do give a better idea of the on gassing and off gassing process and helps the student understand why there are limits and be able to think for themselves what their own limits are and why. My computer will give me the max NDL for the first dive, second, etc. What SI I need.
But it does not allow me before hand to enter the times I want to dive or tell me what my pressure group is at some midpoint. Not without pressing a bunch of buttons and taking a chance on having to start over etc. Tables give the student instant feedback and they are quick, easy, and don't die. I can run over my tables with my truck. They stillwork. Can't say the same for my comp. My last opposition to dive computers for new divers is based on my personal experience and that of others, including the CEO of my agency and he describes it in his new book, of diving with a computer for the first time. I did get mine early on. And one of the things I found myself doing was diving and pushing the computer close to the limits. This is again a judgment and yes training issue. Had an instructor taken or had the time to really drive home the importance of staying conservative without taking the fun out of diving (and it is possible to do so) I may not have taken some of the chances I did and reinforce that a computer is NO substitute for the brain and some common sense. I have to do 16 hours in the classroom. I have the time to do that.
With tables there is an assumed square profile based on the deepest depth of the dive and I do not see anything wrong with that for new divers. Heck some may actually run low on air before hitting the NDL's so no big deal. But as I got more comfortable my air consumption improved and soon those little yellow dots were being lit up before my SPG was telling me it was time to go. I dive an Oceanic comp which has a pretty liberal algorithm. Nothing bad happened. But it could have had I had something that made me more susceptible to a decompression related issue. And I believe that new divers should stay on the conservative side until they, through experience, find that perhaps they can be a bit more aggressive. Staying with tables pretty much requires them to do so.
I am guessing, but I very much doubt that BSAC or CMAS will have "optional" tables in entry level training.
OP
Again, I'm guessing..... but I doubt that BSAC have it. CMAS, no idea.
BSAC are a little old fashioned at times, a friend of mine nearly failed his instructor exam because he used powerpoint. One of other candidates failed to get the concepts across, but got bonus points for building a model of the lungs out of a cardboard box and sticky tape.....
The reason I think they both would still require tables is that I think they both teach decompression tables at entry level. I'd put a question mark against them, though. as I could be wrong (not a BSAC or CMAS instructor).
Another thing that we do as well. Deco is a part of our basic OW course. Highly discouraged as an actual practice but with some places and operators taking divers with no deco training into situations that could require it due to depths and times that are close to or even beyond recommended limits, it is logical to include that option. Our tables have a table "D" which is decompression tables.
SSI has eLearning and tables are optional.
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