The Golden Rule v. Dive Deposits

[boulderjohn]

First, for those who don't know it, the following is often called the golden rule of diving:

Anyone can call any dive for any reason without any questions.​

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It means that if someone is uncomfortable with a dive, either before the dive (because of conditions or anything) or during the dive, then the dive is over. Period. You do not in any way try to push someone to do a dive they don't want to do.

I have done many dives over the years, and there have been precious few that I have called. One was when it was snowing and 20° in New Mexico, and my dive buddy was ready to hop in. Nope. Not me. I have awakened feeling sick on the morning of a dive about 3-4 times. On another occasion, I drove two days for a week of cave diving in Florida, only to get a bad cold after the third day. So I have called dives, but it has been pretty rare.

I have recently encountered a dive operation policy that bothers me--a non-refundable deposit. I am not talking about major trips, like liveaboards, where you can protect yourself with trip insurance. I'm talking about small, daily dive boats. I can see why they want it. If they had a borderline number of divers to make a trip profitable and one or two drop out, they don't have a good choice. They can either cancel the trip at the last minute, screwing over the other divers who were ready to go, or they can run the trip at a financial loss. A deposit would make sense to them.

That deposit, however, puts pressure on the diver who has decided that he or she is too sick, or the conditions are too tough to do the dive. You may argue that the diver should be willing to pay that cost, but I think a lot of divers would instead choose to do a dive that may in fact put them at needless risk.

I am writing this after choosing not to do a dive I would have liked because the operator requires payment in advance. I am currently perfectly healthy, but I will not work with an operator that is consciously breaking the golden rule of diving.

 

[scubadada]

Hi @boulderjohn

Many operators require payment up front when you make the reservation. Are you talking about forfeiting this payment if you cancel your trip inside the duration of time dictated by the operator's cancellation policy, often 24-48 hours? This might be due to illness or if you judge the conditions to be unsafe, though the boat is still going out.

 

[Lorenzoid]

You may argue that the diver should be willing to pay that cost, but I think a lot of divers would instead choose to do a dive that may in fact put them at needless risk.

"A lot of divers" probably do a lot of things that aren't as safe as they could be. Keeping yourself safe has a cost. Maybe that's a good message to instill in new divers. A diver will not hesitate to spend $$$ on a shiny new piece of gear but is reluctant to "spend" money to abort a dive when they don't feel up to it?

 

[boulderjohn]

Are you talking about forfeiting this payment if you cancel your trip inside the duration of time dictated by the operator's cancellation policy, often 24-48 hours?

Yes. You pack your bag the night before the trip, all set to go. Then something happens. For me most recently (last year), I believe it was something int he dinner I ate that made me wake up and vomit during the night and left me queasy in the morning. Something similar happened to me once or twice before. I have also realized that I had developed a cold, with accompanying congestion. In those cases, I objectively should not have dived, but if I had paid for the dive already, then I could have decided to risk it.

A couple years ago I suddenly felt a wave of dizziness come over me the evening before my last scheduled dive in Cozumel. I had a covid testing kit with me, and it was positive. If I had not had the kit and been required to pay for that dive (I wasn't), I might have decided to fight through the symptoms and infected the entire boat.

If you shouldn't dive, you shouldn't dive, and a dive operation should not push you to dive under those circumstances.

 

[scubadada]

...If you shouldn't dive, you shouldn't dive, and a dive operation should not push you to dive under those circumstances.

What is the solution? Operators should not have cancellation policies? Divers should be willing to forfeit their payment if they cancel within the cancellation period?

Last September I had a dive trip arranged for SE Florida. My flight from Philadelphia was cancelled on Thursday due to Hurricane Helene. I called Jupiter Dive Center inside of 24 hours before my dive and they refunded my payment. I flew down the next day and dived for the rest of the week. When something comes up, it is best to contact the operator, they may end of being more flexible than you would think.

I don't recall ever cancelling due to illness. There have been times I wished I was not diving in sporty conditions, but did not know that until I was out on the boat. Whenever I have a boat cancelled due to conditions, I accept the decision and think that the captain is looking out for my safety.

 

[Saboteur]

I’ve been with Living the Dream divers in GC many times. They require all of your dive days to be booked in advance for boat/diver planning but I’ve never paid up front. My buddy once acquired a cold and could not dive, had to scrub a few days… no problem. Full payment after your last dive day … such a fabulous customer oriented business.

 

[jthijsma]

Edit: I was curious so I looked up my insurance policy, you need a local doctor to sign off so it might nog be as easy.

My travel insurance will cover cancelled activities due to illness up to €250. Maybe something to look into?

 

[Still Kicking]

I have always felt that local dive boats are the greatest resource for local divers. Not only do you get to dive interesting sites which you probably wouldn't know about let alone reach, you have a team watching over you (hopefully!) ready to help you if you need it.

If you thinking charter prices are expensive try owning a boat lol!

Certainly no one is making a lot of money running a local boat. Costs are continually rising and the trend among new certifications seems to be toward destination divers rather than active local divers.

California's dive boat fleet has been decimated in the wake of the Conception tragedy. It is much harder/more expensive to dive the Channel Islands these days and that's a real shame as they are some of the best coldwater diving anywhere. Many California divers will never see what cool opportunities exist just off our coast.

Filling a charter boat is very difficult to begin with and many boats run close to the break-even point. If you allow divers to cancel without penalty just because they are not feeling it, the operator will often have to face the choice between running a trip at a loss or cancelling altogether.

If they run at a loss often enough they will go out of business. If they cancel, how is that fair to the rest of the passengers and the crew who showed up but aren't going to be paid. How does the operator cover their fixed overhead like dock fees etc.?

It is entirely reasonable for boats to have a policy of no refunds after a certain point. It is standard in other industries too. If you buy a plane ticket but wake up with the flu, does United give you a refund?

 

[Allen-1]

I was recently on a boat out of West Palm Beach where one of a pair of divers got sick, (vomiting over the side), during the surface interval between two dives. The pair sat out the next dive, (which was compassionate/smart on the part of the one who wasn't ill).

I doubt that they received a refund - and I doubt that they asked for one.

 

[jthijsma]

You are paying every year to get your gear serviced so you can be safe underwater. Sometimes you will be paying for a dive that you could not go on for whatever reason so you can be safe underwater. In my opinion you're spending money on the same thing: feeling/being safe. I feel like it is just part of the cost of diving.

I recently had to cancel a day in Bali because I was really not in a state to be away from a toilet for multiple hours (iykyk), lost some money but that's life.