The Ethics of Full Disclosure on ScubaBoard

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Tobin, the "Force Account" you describe is classic Fraud and the reason Why no government contractor is allowed to accept so much as a tee shirt, they spend GOVERNMENT money for their own financial gain. But yesterday I received a Free Shop Tee Shirt for Spending MY money on a class-So happy! Such a cute TeeShirt! This is not corruption because the customers have a say in what products the select, it is not being handed to them, and the payment is not TAX-confiscated out of their pockets. Totally different, and outrageous to confuse the two. This is the type of thinking that calls Decompression Chamber salespeople greedy capitalists instead of applauding their sincere efforts to bring out the best safety net that they can, for our benefit.
 
So Tobin, from now on if I recommend this dive shop classes, I HAVE to disclose the free tee-shirt, even though they give one out for every class, (in fact it is really included in the pricing structure), or else, what? I am not getting a tee shirt for every mention.
The word you are looking for it "Incentive" or "relationship", not corruption.
 
Tobin, the "Force Account" you describe is classic Fraud and the reason Why no government contractor is allowed to accept so much as a tee shirt, they spend GOVERNMENT money for their own financial gain. But yesterday I received a Free Shop Tee Shirt for Spending MY money on a class-So happy! Such a cute TeeShirt! This is not corruption because the customers have a say in what products the select, it is not being handed to them, and the payment is not TAX-confiscated out of their pockets. Totally different, and outrageous to confuse the two. This is the type of thinking that calls Decompression Chamber salespeople greedy capitalists instead of applauding their sincere efforts to bring out the best safety net that they can, for our benefit.

1) The T-Shirt wasn't actually "Free" and apparently was offered only after you made the choice to pay for a class. Nothing corrupting about that.

2) The source of funds makes no difference. Corruption does not require the mis appropriation of tax dollars, although it often does. All that is required for corruption the chance to get your hands dirty with money you didn't earn.....

Tobin
 
So Tobin, from now on if I recommend this dive shop classes, I HAVE to disclose the free tee-shirt, even though they give one out for every class, (in fact it is really included in the pricing structure), or else, what? I am not getting a tee shirt for every mention.
The word you are looking for it "Incentive" or "relationship", not corruption.

If the shirt is included as part of taking the class, of course not. If you are provided freebies as a result of "Packing classes" then yes you should. "I love this shop, they take good care of their customers, they even gave me this cute shirt for spreading the word" Not all that hard now is it?

Tobin
 
Tobin, What is hard is restraining my own language in the face of being called "Vulgar" and "Corrupt", but I am digging deep here.
There is a big difference between Sharing and Shilling:, and the difference is not what you get, (dinners out, tee shirts, key rings, NOT cash stuffed in your bra) but what you give, (Sincere discussion of product /service, that you have tried, seen your friend use). My Dive shop invited people for pizza and sales pitch on vacations, I am not going just for pizza alone, but if I DID go, it would not be for pizza alone. But you know what? It is really nice to share dinner with really nice dive shop people, if I happen to want to plan a trip.
 
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Having been a salesman for 40+ years I saw plenty of Kickbacks and "side deals" done by various
companies and agencies; "free trips", commissions offered to sales people and various other methods
to influence sales.

I suppose my transgressions had to do with breakfast and lunch.

I liked to meet my first appointment of the day before their store opened, have
a nice breakfast, and then do some business.

The same at lunch, larger store with more staff enabling the managers and buyers
to be free for lunch.

I reserved the evenings to myself and usually had a quiet dinner and an early night.
 
My Dive shop invited people for pizza and sales pitch on vacations, I am not going just for pizza alone, but if I DID go, it would not be for pizza alone. But you know what? It is really nice to share dinner with really nice dive shop people, if I happen to want to plan a trip.

Nothing wrong with that. The shop paid for the pizza, and "bought" your attention with it for at least a few minutes.

Nothing that lacked transparency at all.

I have limited my objections to cases where individuals stand to benefit and that benefit is not disclosed. To intentionally portray an Honestly conducted "Open House" type event as the equivalent is kinda silly.

Tobin
 
I've provided free samples, with zero strings attached, of most my new products.
Hmnnnnnnnnnnn... You mean you weren't trying to corrupt the people you gave those samples to? Oh my. You're willing to justify your behavior, and yet, so ready to condemn those who market a bit differently than you.

Exactly how would such an action create a moral dilemma for anyone?
Unfortunately, you keep misrepresenting what I post. I never said it created a moral dilemma because I don't think it does. But then, I don't think referrals are immoral either. If you don't like referrals, then don't do referrals. It's as easy as that. However, one might ponder the ethics of condemning competitors for simply doing things a bit differently than you. You write "no strings attached", but it's still a bribe. Not a bad bribe. Not an unethical bribe. It's simply marketing. It's like giving away a sticker or a t-shirt. It's getting people to notice you, perhaps to patronize you. It's all good... within reason. Before you feign more outrage, I'm not the only one who feels you're being unreasonable here. Take the proverbial "chill pill" and think on this a bit.

Make no doubt about it. The SB team takes unethical behaviors seriously. We've identified and banned sock puppets coming in to bash their competitors. We've even merged their accounts at times, so people can see how unethical they are being. We've even had users try to hold businesses cyber hostages. "If you don't meet my demands, we're going to smear your name on ScubaBoard." Whoa! Now THAT'S unethical. We have various ways to deal with that sort of thing, and boy you should hear them howl about our censorship when we do. Oh wait, we don't take that sort of thing down, so you can read it on your own. For the record, we need the tribe's help in this. If you suspect someone is acting unethical, then please report the post. We'll definitely take a look and see if there's anything to your suspicions.

John isn't complaining about people promoting businesses. He's not against marketing at all. No, he's complaining about people not disclosing their financial or other ties. Now, that's deceitful and unethical. The easy way around that is to be up front. Put who you work for in your signature line. The tribe can forgive a lot of sins, but they have a hard time forgiving deceit. That and incompetence that leads to death. Who can blame them?
 
Seems to me, over the years I have been here, that most folks are fairly up front.

Yes, of course, there are sock puppets and bogus posts. They seem to be found
out in a short period of time.

The Manufacturers forum is very straight forward.

Some distributors/manufacturers do not monitor the board regularly-staff changes, etc. influence that.
Still not a bad place to start.

This is a world wide board. Good input from all over.
 
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https://www.shearwater.com/products/peregrine/

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