The endless saga continues...

[tridacna]

A new LDS opened near me. Owner is the nicest guy. Runs a very friendly operation. I've stopped in a few times and enjoy hanging out. A very cool and pleasant place.

I really want to support the guy. I ask him to quote me on a Whites Fusion. I also get a quote from ST. The prices are not even in the same universe. LDS is literally twice what Joe quotes. I needed another reg. I look at what he has in the store. Once again, the pricing compared to the net is off the charts. I simply cannot justify buying with such a huge differential. I spoke to him about it and showed him the other prices. His answer is that he needs to make a profit. He knows that old time divers will seldom buy from him so he relies on the "newly minted about to go to the caribbean" divers to buy their packages of westuits, masks, snorkels and fins. I never question past that. I've signed up for a DAN class and I'll buy a few small things from him.

If there was a 20% difference, I'd support him in every way. 150-200% and I just cannot do it. It really sucks. And when I ask him what he thinks of MARP, he says that he needs the protection!

 

[ScubaSarus]

Unfortunatly it is true; manufacturers do dictate the minimum price that authorized dive shops can sell their merchandise for. The LDS has its hands tied a lot of the times. Grey market dealers can bypass this minimum sales price and thus be able to under-sell the dive shope. I don't know if its even worth posting about this anymore as its been beaten into the ground. Maybe a seperate venting forum would be better.

 

[tridacna]

Unfortunatly it is true; manufacturers do dictate the minimum price that authorized dive shops can sell their merchandise for. The LDS has its hands tied a lot of the times. Grey market dealers can bypass this minimum sales price and thus be able to under-sell the dive shope. I don't know if its even worth posting about this anymore as its been beaten into the ground. Maybe a seperate venting forum would be better.

Interesting. I never considered ST to be a grey market store. Is that true?

I understand the volume differential between the LDS and ST. But double the price?

Bottom line: It is my opinion that with the exception of some LDS's, most have given us up. They don't want to compete with the Internet so they rely on the inexperienced and lazy. I think that we've reached a watershed moment.

 

[NorthWoodsDiver]

If you want a fusion call Mike at Dive Right In Scuba, I bet he would help you out.

I once got a look at a scubapro dealers guide... and the MAP price was about 100% over that of dealer cost so the item I wanted which cost the deal $40 +shipping was gonna cost me $98.75!!! I understand everyone needs to make a profit but on something like that it was kinda overkill and they wouldn't move on the price because "Scubapro would take away their right to be a dealer if they found out".

A dealer should have the right to sell at any price they want and if I buy $2k worth of gear and dont even get a free Tshirt or something I just dont buy the gear there. I almost exclusively buy online now-a-days.

 

[scjoe]

The manufacturers usually prohibit discounts or premiums of more than about 10%. Whites may allow more. Surprisingly, there are stores that charge premiums. As it currently stands, the manufacturers can and do cut off dealers who violate their re-sale price requirements.

In early 2008, the MSRP on the Fusion was close to $2,000 including undergarments. ST currently quotes the suit at $1,188 which must be the suit without any undergarments. The internet prices I have seen are $1,295, $1,358, $1,955 and $1,878. I suspect this variety of prices is a function of the undergarments and whether boots are also included.

 

[sam1]

I was a very good customer of my LDS (one of the best, actually). They routinely gave me enough of a discount that I was very comfortable buying from them. But they went out of business!

 

[Sas]

The manufacturers usually prohibit discounts or premiums of more than about 10%. Whites may allow more. Surprisingly, there are stores that charge premiums. As it currently stands, the manufacturers can and do cut off dealers who violate their re-sale price requirements.

I am wondering, is this illegal in many countries? It is illegal in Australia, however most of the scuba manufacturers engage in resale price maintenance. Oceanic was busted recently by the ACCC: Oceanic Diving admits engaging in resale price maintenance as they were the only ones dumb enough to write the policy down. They got a slap on the wrist in punishment unfortunately (have to be under a trade compliance program for three years and they also had to apologise in a scuba magazine) so I doubt it send a strong message to other manufacturers.

So I am wondering if RPM is illegal elsewhere and if so, how do the manufacturers get away with it?

 

[dkktsunami]

"Needing to make a profit" and finding a way to do it are two entirely different things. A lot of unsuccessful business adventurers think they are entitled to a profit, buy something and mark it up. Doesn't work that way. Don't feel guilty about shopping elsewhere. I agree with you completely - I am certainly willing to pay a little more to support a local business (usually this not only costs more, but I have to drive there and back, maybe twice, as compared with the item showing up on my porch). The point here, I think, is that it is worth your money to pay extra to a LDS that has a chance at long term survival and some sort of rational business plan or a niche in the scuba market. A business can not survive in today's world charging twice what internet offers along with the possible inconvenience.

 

[themagni]

A business can not survive in today's world charging twice what internet offers along with the possible inconvenience.

As an aside, I got eyeglasses online for $150 including shipping. The same product in town would run me $700+.

I've had better customer service from the online store than any of the multiple stores I walked into to try glasses. In one case, I ended up helping out another customer because the staff couldn't be bothered to talk to us.

 

[scjoe]

My guess is manufacturers get away with RPM by finding "other reasons" to terminate a store. Not enough sales, etc. For a long time in the US RPM was not technically not legal, but manufacturers still terminated people. In 2007, the US Supreme Court ruled that RPM could be enforced on a case-by-case basis if reasonable to protect a manufacturer's legitimate needs.

In the current example, even at the internet sites there was almost an $800 difference in price. I wonder if the LDS and ST prices were really apples to apples. 150% of $1188 is $1782 which is cheaper than two internet stores. Maybe ST is running almost a loss leader and the LDS is content to wait until ST raises its prices. Matching your competitor in a price war usually just means everyone loses money.