the deeper the noisier!

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needmynitrogenfix

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maybe someone can help:
my reg was difficult to breath so i adjusted the lever in the 2nd stage with my in-line adjustment tool and now it is working great, but........now it makes a horrible screeching sound when i inhale underwater especially as i go deeper. the noise is coming from the second stage. its worse when inhaling gently as opposed to sucking air in fast. i dont notice it much when shallow. any ideas? just started after adjusting that orifice/lever to make it breath easier. the reg is a zeagle envoy.
-thanks!
 
You say, "i adjusted the lever in the 2nd stage." What did you do, raise the height of the lever relative to the diaphragm?
 
A few questions first:

1. Which model 2nd stage, the one with just the venturi lever, or the one with both the venturi lever and the adjuster knob?
2. Give a little more history on this 2nd stage. When did it start breathing badly? Had it just been serviced, or had it been "ok" but over time became hard-breathing?
3. Can you reproduce the sound on the surface, or only underwater?

By coincidence I just rebuilt one of my Zeagle ZX 2nd stages last weekend. I'm struggling to come up with an easy explanation for why a simple orifice adjustment would create the noise that is being described.

Adjusting the orifice will change the lever position (in this case, backing off the orifice raises the lever).

Maybe it contacts the diaphragm in a slightly different way during inhalation... I honestly don't know.

If it were my 2nd stage, and it went from "quiet" to "noisy", I would not dive it again until I figured out (and hopefully fixed) the problem.

Fixing the problem will require disassembling the 2nd stage, inspecting all the components, then reassembling and re-tuning it. If it is a "harmonic" type noise, sometimes just changing the orientation of the parts can stop the noise... for example, flipping the spring.

Good luck, and let us know what happens.

Best wishes,
 
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its a zx 2nd stage with just the venturi lever, no adjuster knob. ive had the reg a few years, serviced it myself twice. a few months after the last service i noticed it was very difficult to breath. octo and intermediate pressure were ok so i knew it was in the 2nd stage. used in-line adjustment tool with reg on tank and air turned on and adjusted lever (raised it) until air started hissing slightly, then backed off just until hissing stopped. went for a dive, was very easy to breath, but i think i went a bit too far with the adjustment because when not inhaling it woukd leak a slow stream of bubbles from the vent. adjusted it again the other direction so it was even more backed off from the air-leaking position and closer to the hard-to-breath position but still easy to breath. went for a dive, still breathes great, but as i go deeper it makes a scraping, screeching hiss when i inhale. when adjusting the lever with the in-line adjustment tool i noticed it very quickly goes from hard to breath to leaking air and easy to breath. this adjustment seems extra sensitive. anyway it breaths great now, just wondering why my most recent adjustment has left it with an annoying screech when i inhale. doesnt do it on land. thanks for the help.
 
Hi needmynitrogenfix,

Most barrel poppet 2nd stages are pretty sensitive to orifice adjustments. A small turn of the orifice results in a noticeable movement of the lever.

I typically tune mine so that there is just the tiniest of leaks with the adjuster knob set to the easiest breathing position. During the dive, I set the adjuster to just stop the leak... this is usually just 1/8 clockwise turn of the adjuster knob or so. This increases the pressure on the spring, but does not effect the lever height. Turning the adjuster knob results in less "effect" compared to turning the orifice...

Since yours does not have an adjuster, you will need to ensure there is no leak at all; but this should only take a small adjustment from the "slight leak" position, maybe a 30 degree clockwise turn of the orifice, or approximately "12 o'clock to 1 o'clock". Turn orifice clockwise to "just" stop the leak, then just ever-so-slightly turn it clockwise a bit more to prevent it from leaking during the dive. It should still breath very easily.

You may need to re-adjust the orifice as the seat "takes a set" after a dive or two.

If I am understanding your problem:

1.) Your 2nd stage seemed too hard to breath, so you turned the orifice counter-clockwise with the inline adjuster.
2.) You dove the reg, it breathed well, but now had a slight free-flow.
3.) You used the inline adjuster again, this time turned the orifice clockwise.
4.) This stopped the freeflow, but caused a screeching noise during inhalation underwater.

You may have caused the lever to drop too far with your 2nd adjustment (turning the orifice clockwise drops the lever). This might now cause the diaphragm to vibrate or flutter against the lever.

I'm really just guessing, it could be something else entirely. But it seems to be related to changing the orifice position, which in turn effects lever height.


What concerns me with the additional history you provided is that the regulator became very difficult to breath a few months after the last service. That would cause me to completely disassemble the 2nd stage.

The normal failure mode or just general wear from use is for the soft seat to begin to wear, and a gradually worsening free-flow develops. But 3 months after a service is too soon unless you are diving an awful lot, and again I would usually expect a slight free-flow as the seat takes a "set", not hard breathing.

If the reg had been easy breathing, then became hard breathing in that short a period I would want to know why.

Since you are comfortable servicing it yourself, I would take it apart again.... start from scratch, be extra careful during assembly to make sure the lever "feet" are engaging the poppet correctly (shuttle valve is what Zeagle calls it I think), and re-tune it. This will allow you to inspect the diaphragm, lever, seat, spring, orifice, etc.

Best wishes.
 
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thanks leadturn,
i guess i will service the 2nd stage again and see what happens. no point adjusting the lever again. if i go one direction it free flows and if i go the other it get difficult to breath so it seems to be set where it should be. thanks for the help.
 
Are you sure the noise is from the 2nd stage? Have you tried the octo and it does not make the noise? The reason is that the first stage is working harder as depth increases, but not the 2nd stage, so if the noise changes as depth increases, that would generally indicate the 1st stage, especially a piston 1st stage. That's just a guess.
 
I am wondering if a foreign object was introduced when the orifice was being adjusted.
 
yes the noise is from the second stage.
dont see any ufo's in the orifice but could be there and not visible. will give it a second going over.
thanks for the help guys
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/teric/

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