The debate about buying your own gear for the newbie

[Mark Derail]

Pics !

The Zeagle Stilletto weighs less.


View attachment 116145

The Aqualung Dimension i3 weighs more.


For my two BCD's, the weight difference isn't huge, perhaps 3 lbs less. The difference is on the back, the Dimension i3 has a hard plastic frame to hold the tank, and only one strap.

The Stilletto has two straps, all material, folds in two. I've seen smaller too, but I needed an extra BCD that can be used in cold water too, not a warm-water only BCD.

Found a pic of rear-view.


FWIW, I didn't like the i3 system in warm water with corals, and in cenotes, too easy to drift into something, that pushes your lever UP. Or when you do silly things, like rolling on your back to make bubble rings, on the ocean floor.
Though you just gotta love the Angel fish darting to your ring bubble to eat it, as if it was an onion ring.

Haven't yet bumped into anything with cold water dives...and we're 3 divers now, so the extra BCD is useful for family dives.

 

[coldwatercanada]

My cold and warm water BC's weigh about 8lbs. With the steel plate. With the al or the Express Tech it's around 5. Now if you are talking those big bulky things with all the unnecessary padding, cummerbunds, integrated weight pockets, etc then yeah those get kinda heavy. Why I don't use one. Even some of the BC's marketed for travel have lots of stuff they don't need. And the super light ones just don't feel solid to me.

Not to sound like a smart ass but 1. We're not all as bad ass as you lol some people, as hard as this may be to believe, Like regualr recreational BCDs with all that fancey padding, weight pockets and gear pockets 2. Were talking about new divers, divers that are just trying out new gear or moving into there first set, not tec divers or crazy advanced divers. I agree that when considering buying a bdc that set up should be considered but many of these divers wont move into a wing/bladder system for years if ever! I've been diving for 9-10 yrs and i still dont use a wing i use sidemount or my "Rec" BDC

 

[rhwestfall]

FWIW - I wish a BP/W was on the scene when I was first buying gear. Its not just a "tech" item as much as your LDS (which it likely isn't carrying) wants you to believe. It is just a lot less stuff than you really need. The extra stuff has evolved over years of having to add stuff to get you to buy something new.... marketing 101..... and not diving 101....

 

[Jim Lapenta]

I do recommend BPW's and BC's like the Express Tech to new divers. I have students use them in the OW class along with jackets. 2 out of the last 20 liked the jacket better and that's what they got. The rest are all in minimalist BC's that cost half to a 1/4 of what some jackets do. And are more useful and easily configured to the diver. Ie they fit. Perfectly. Every time. No trying to get into a mfg's idea of what size you are. BPW's are not tech BC's. They are BC's. Period. Less bulky, pack smaller, are infinitely customizeable, require less lead in general, and allow the diver to feel less restricted and encumbered. Most conventional jacket BC's I have tried (which is only about 25 or 30 different models) all had something about them that was unnecessary, a gimmick that really did not add to their function, pockets that were difficult to get into and find anything quickly (why I also have thigh pockets on all 4 of my wetsuits and my dry suit), felt less than secure with heavy steel tanks, and had weight systems that I was not completely comfortable with. I used a WI BC for the first two years. Then after becoming a DM I went to a belt and never looked back. Even with the WI BC I never used only the pockets if carrying more than 10lbs. Anything over got distributed between them and the belt.

New divers should keep it as simple as possible in all aspects of their diving until they have their skills down pat. Then they can go for fancy stuff. Until then you do not get much simpler than a BPW or minimalist BC like the Express Tech and weight belt.

 

[coldwatercanada]

this is turning into a whole nother debate. I personally find my bcd pockets more comfertable then then shoving stuff into my drysuit thigh pockets i cant imagine how uncomfertable that would be in a wetsuit pocket! Also for the record our shop carries 3 brands of BPWs and have them all in one form or another in rental for people to try before they buy. And in all honestly if your telling me a weight belt is easier then WI then thats very much your own opinion!

 

[fjpatrum]

Ah, we aren't talking about the same limits. It's the limit for the cheapest per-person luggage scenario I mean, which still costs 25$.

They'll refuse to even take your luggage if over 50, the limit I talk about is the price point for 1 checked luggage per person, without a surcharge, is 25 lbs, 12 kilos.
That's at the 25$ per person for one.
The 2nd luggage per person is 35$, also at a 25 lb limit at that price. Price nearly doubles if you're over 25 lb limit.

I did not want to pay a 25$ premium on top of the 25$, just for 0.8 lbs, so the two computers came off, clipped on me, that I later transferred into my carry-on.

Okay, you're going to have to show me links to that because in my last post I looked at all those airline websites and there was no 25 pound limit shown. The 50 pound limit for most airlines was either $25 or $35 for the first bag ($50 for a couple of the airlines) but they were all 50 pounds and 62 inches...

American Airlines Baggage Allowance Information On AA.com

Baggage Allowances on Flights

United Airlines - Travel Information from United.com: International Checked Baggage

US Airways | Baggage policies

Checked Baggage


EDIT: After posting this I noticed you're in Canada. I don't think it's different but the weights I was quoting were listed as travel within the US. International travel had the same weight restrictions but different fees...

 

[fjpatrum]

Not to sound like a smart ass but 1. We're not all as bad ass as you lol some people, as hard as this may be to believe, Like regualr recreational BCDs with all that fancey padding, weight pockets and gear pockets 2. Were talking about new divers, divers that are just trying out new gear or moving into there first set, not tec divers or crazy advanced divers. I agree that when considering buying a bdc that set up should be considered but many of these divers wont move into a wing/bladder system for years if ever! I've been diving for 9-10 yrs and i still dont use a wing i use sidemount or my "Rec" BDC

I have less than 20 dives and have been using a BP/W since dive 9. BP/W has nothing to do with being "crazy advanced". It has to do with excess innate buoyancy designed into the vest BCs and fit (for me) that doesn't work in vest BCs. I've dived in as light as a 2.5 mm spring suit and as thick as 14 mm for cold water, all with the same BC, which weighs 6 or 7 pounds and lays flat in my carry-on bag if needed. I've never dived dry but I'm told vests are often less comfortable in a dry suit and also sometimes inhibit the inflation port for the suit (I don't know if that's accurate or depends on models of suit and BC etc etc.) It really doesn't take more than one.


As for "cold water" vests versus "warm water" vests, I submit there is no difference except marketing and price point. The number of pockets don't really matter, though having the ability to wear 22 pounds of weights in your pockets might be considered a good thing. I don't happen to think so but I'm willing to acknowledge that not everyone shares that opinion.

 

[Mark Derail]

Would make sense, with all my departures in Canada, that the scales were all set on metric.

I'm flying out again in 2 weeks, will double check for sure.

 

[coldwatercanada]

Im a strong believe of to each there own. Our store can let a new diver try approx(and this is as im counting off the top of my head but i can count when i get there tomorrow) 14 different styles of BCD (Including 2 brands of BPW, 4 styles of Jacket including women only, Back inflate rec, sidemount, and Zegal style back inflate) Not including any special set ups that one of our 13 instructors own. I'm not ripping on your for using a BPW im just saying that with my jacket style properly trimmed i have no problem being streamline! i also prefer it to any sort of back inflate when dealing with students under water and situations at the surface! I have tried it and i guess really my sidemount rig is the same concept as a BPW.

I personally feel BPW are a more advanced style device becuase they have less pockets so a student has more items clipped to them. Less room to store stuff. I also feel that WI is a much easier system then the weight belt, Especially for divers without hips(This guy). Furthermore Jacket style vests have built in retractors for your guages and such that takes some of the junk off your drings and hides it away. Do i tell students about all 4(6) styles of BDC? yes! do I tell them the pros and cons? yes! Do i encourage them to try all different styles and make an informed decision? Yes! Am i biased against BPW? Yes but only in the same way you guys are against Jacket/traditional style rec BCDS.

Personal preference i guess. But were so far off topic its not even funny ha ha and now its going to break down to a last word in contest

 

[coldwatercanada]

and my cold water vest has 45lbs of lift where a warm water BCD usually has around 20lbs. Thats the only difference everything else is purly cosmetic!