The case against ditchable weight

[doctormike]

Technical divers, in balanced rig, have other stuff to dump... deco cylinders, canister lights etc etc...

Thanks for the great summary!

Maybe this is more of an issue for technical divers in wetsuits, but wouldn't going to redundant buoyancy (SMB, lift bag) be a better solution in case of wing failure than trying to drop ditchable gear? Especially since modern canisters are a lot smaller and lighter than the old lead acid batteries, and I would be VERY reluctant to ditch gas in almost any scenario...

 

[boulderjohn]

It is important to have a secure way that the ditchable weights are attached.

I am surprised this seems to be the only mention of this so far. Ditchable weights should be ditachable when you want them to be released, but securely in place when you don't.

Early ScubaPro pockets were held in place with Velcro, and they were not secure, especially after sand got into the Velcro. Years ago, while diving in Cozumel, I found Velcro ScubaPro pockets lying on the bottom on consecutive dive days. ScubaPro figured out there was a problem and replaced the Velcro with clips on future models. I owned one of those for a while (Nighthawk), and it worked well. Some people argued that the design took too much additional time to ditch, but we're talking about a second or two. Can you imagine a scenario in which taking another second to ditch your weight could prove to be critical? Not many BCD designs today use Velcro to secure weights. Stay away from them.

Weight belts can be problematic, too, especially as they age. In my first year of diving, I used rental gear, and one day I was given a weight belt with a very old buckle that would simply not stay closed. Avoid those, too.

Oceanic has a design right now on some BCDs that I think it absolutely terrible. (I have to use it for pool instruction.) In this case, the problem is getting the pocket into the BCD in the first place. It is supposed to click into place and then be yanked out when needed. The problem is that it is very hard to get it to click into place. You can't see if it is in place, and you have to learn to distinguish the difference in sound and feel between a secure lock and the system just being temporarily stuck by friction. It will seem to be secure until you are surprised when it drops out while diving. If you manage to get it back when it does fall out, it will take the careful help of an increasingly frustrated buddy to get it back into place--I know I can't do it by myself while I'm wearing it.

The moral of the story is if you are considering purchasing a ditchable weight system of any kind, including removable pockets for Back Plate and Wing designs, look at the mechanism carefully to see how well it it designed. Some really suck.

 

[Akimbo]

Bent is preferable to dead. So, there's that. I think it's viewed as an absolute last resort in situations where death is imminent, but, like you said, there are caveats.

I concur. Avoid drowning, embolism, and getting bent in that order.

… I read one report where someone spent a week in a hyperbaric chamber because the velcro came loose on their weight pocket.

What am I missing?

You are missing the fact that Velcro is not a reliable method of preventing accidental dropping of anything underwater, especially weight. Parachutes occasionally fail to deploy properly, but is that justification to ride a disabled plane to the ground?

 

[CT-Rich]

Thanks for the great summary!

Maybe this is more of an issue for technical divers in wetsuits, but wouldn't going to redundant buoyancy (SMB, lift bag) be a better solution in case of wing failure than trying to drop ditchable gear? Especially since modern canisters are a lot smaller and lighter than the old lead acid batteries, and I would be VERY reluctant to ditch gas in almost any scenario...

I think planning the ditching of gear versus lead is a bad idea. I could see a diver struggling and waiting before letting go of $500 of gear. SMBs and lift bags mean A) you are going to give up air you might want or B) you may be giving up gas you don't have. A lot of dead divers are found with full gear including lead. The redundancy of a failed BCD should be dropping lead. once on the surface and positive you can make rational decisions about what you should or shouldn't ditch.

I have weight in three places. I have 12lbs on a belt that cost me $10 30 years ago. I have an additional 2 x 6lbs in weight pockets on the BCD and a few in trim pockets. That means i have lots of choices that I could make a staged assent. But realistically, I would be scared of becoming a polaris missile at the surface..... I think if I was in real (and this is an incredibly unlikely situation) "I am passing out and realize it and want to make it to the surface no matter what" situation, I would add air to my BCD. This has the advantage of making me buoyant but allowing for me to change my mind and regaining control at shallower depths. REALLY this is an unlikely situation. Most situation of passing out underwater are going to happen without prior warning.

A much more likely situation is that you get to the surface and you are missing your boat or have an unexpectedly long surface swim or a big chop has picked up and you start to have a freak-out.. This actually can happen. When I was young and seat belt laws were being implemented, Friends who didn't want to wear them would say "but what if the car goes into a lake or river?" Don't plan for the least likely disaster, plan for the most likely.

Once you dump lead you are not going to get the opportunity to think better of it or change your mind...

 

[doctormike]

I think planning the ditching of gear versus lead is a bad idea.

Yes, exactly.


But I think that we are talking about two different things. For a panicked recreational diver on the surface, the important thing is to get positive right away. A BC is good for that (wing size is calculated in part by what you need to be able to float your rig at the surface). But for someone who doesn't have the presence of mind or ability to inflate their BC, or who loses air by accidentally hitting the dump button instead of the inflate button, they need to drop ditchable lead, or have someone drop it for them.


As far as ditching gear, I think that Andy was referring to the rare situation in technical diving where you are so negative that you can't ascend by swimming up. This would primarily be a situation where you had a thin wetsuit and heavy doubles, and had a failure of your primary wing. Then the options are:


1) Ditchable weight - not aways a part of a standard technical diving kit, especially for wetsuit tech divers. I wear no ditchable weight (or any additional ballast) at all, with a dry suit and double 119 steel tanks.


2) Discard equipment - more useful in the old days of heavy lead-acid canister batteries. Most of the other equipment doesn't weight that much, and unless you are carrying large steel deco bottles, the cost-benefit analysis of ditching a full AL 40 (1.5 lbs negative) would seem to favor keeping your gas.


3) Redundant buoyancy - I always carry two SMBs (or one SMB and a lift bag), so you can use that in this situation. Not that easy, something to practice. But as far as the concern you raised about the SMB using up "air that you might want", this is a non-issue. The amount of gas it takes to fill a SMB is trivial in your gas planning, and if it really bothers you you can use exhaust gas to fill an open bottom SMB. As far as them using "gas that you don't have", if you don't have enough gas to fill an SMB, then you had better ditch your rig and do a CESA!


4) Double bladder wing - these work, they seem to have a bad reputation here. I have one because it was cheap (wonder why?), and might be helpful in the rare situation that I am diving a heavy rig in a thin wetsuit (I can only dream!). Easier to deploy a backup bladder than to ride a lift bag...

 

[DogDiver]

I don't wear any additional removable or non-removable weights.
When diving side mount with a dual bladder Nomad. And where removing any gear is a non-option 2400 feet back in a cave. Added up the weight of my gear on every dive. 180 pounds! [emoji41]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[NAM001]

To the OP........ DO NOT CONFUSE DITCHING WEIGHT WITH THE METHODS OF DITCHING. They are 2 different and individual entities. They may be dating but they are not married. I will agree you should not have to have 20# ditchable weight. Ballanced rig comes into play on this. I think you position is based on not having a wing or bcd failure. that you are not using 6" of neo for the cold water dive and other factors. Next ditchable weight is not isolated to lead in a pouch. I actually see more threat of having no ditchable weight than having it. The secret is how you balance the fixed vs ditchable. The problems you have described of Velcro ect are the method of incorporating ditchable weight.

 

[halocline]

In the PADI OWD materials, there is great emphasis on being ready, able, and willing to ditch your weights.

For a panicked or otherwise poorly coping diver who is already on the surface, that makes sense.

But at depth, it's not going to save you, and accidental releases have resulted in accidents and fatalities. I read one report where someone spent a week in a hyperbaric chamber because the velcro came loose on their weight pocket.

What am I missing?

I believe PADI did some research and found that the surface is actually about the most hazardous place for new (or student) divers, ironically. What I mean is that a large percentage of accidents with new and/or student divers take place on the surface. So surface management is very important to them within their course structure.

In practice, experienced divers properly weighted in warm water (meaning less ballast) really don't need ditchable weight to be safe. Cold water divers carrying large amounts of ballast will almost by necessity be carrying much of it in a ditchable format like a weight belt or pockets. Many will also have some in the form of a negative tank and/or backplate. Splitting it up between the diver's body and the rig makes it less likely to have a uncontrolled ascent in the event of losing a pocket or belt, and it also makes carrying around the rig that much easier.

You are correct in that there are almost no scenarios in which ditching weight at depth makes sense (assuming a properly weighted recreational diver) and poorly designed weight pockets can be a real danger, in some circumstances. In warm water I rarely have any significant ditchable weight.

 

[tursiops]

Interesting thread, in an odd sort of way. The OP makes two statements ("But at depth, it's not going to save you" and "accidental releases have resulted in accidents and fatalities") and provides one hearsay of such an accident which was caused by "velcro came loose on their weight pocket." He then asks a question: "What am I missing?"

The responses have been all over the map, ranging from silly to only-applicable-to-technical-diving. Not surprising, I guess.

I hope the OP realizes (1) velcro to hold weights is a bad idea, and I don't think any BCDs are made that way anymore; (2) dumping weights does not mean dumping all of one's weights, but rather just enough to get buoyant; (3) buoyancy advice from technical divers using drysuits is rarely applicable to recreational diving with a wetsuit; and (4) dumping a few pounds is probably a last-resort if in trouble underwater, but it is always nice to have that last resort if needed.

P.S. The OP makes no case whatsoever for a case against ditchable weights...

P.P.S. Balanced Rigs are mostly B.S. and bluster; it just means proper weighting, which does not always require drysuits and certainly does not require a BP/W! Rant over.

 

[Nemrod]

In the PADI OWD materials, there is great emphasis on being ready, able, and willing to ditch your weights.

For a panicked or otherwise poorly coping diver who is already on the surface, that makes sense.

But at depth, it's not going to save you, and accidental releases have resulted in accidents and fatalities. I read one report where someone spent a week in a hyperbaric chamber because the velcro came loose on their weight pocket.

What am I missing?

There is no case in open water sport diving for not having sufficient jettison-able weight/ballast that positive buoyancy can be established on the surface. As well there have been numerous incidents where divers have entered the water, or during a dive, were over weighted and dangerously negative. The result was fatal in some of those incidents due to inability to release some ballast. All of your ballast does not need to be able to be dropped, but there needs to be enough that positive buoyancy can be established. I would rather be able to release it all. And yes, I am against weight belts inside the harness, there are exceptions such as drysuit diving, cave/penetration diving, certain other tech diving, but it does no good to have weight that can be released only for it to hang up in the harness. The weight must be able to be jettisoned with one movement. There may not be an opportunity for a person in trouble to fiddle around with untangling a belt from a harness and inside the harness requires multiple steps, under stress, on the verge of passing out, not going to happen.

N